Author: kogfamily+
Posted Aug 04 2012 06:26:05pm
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billyb,
I am very troubled and not sure if this might be my last blog here. I had determined that I would not log back into this site but did today and read your blog which stirred me so that I had to post. Please forgive me if you must but here is my long comment.
Churches today are filled with doctrinal confusion. Based on the some of the comments I hear it seems people do not even really know what it means to be saved and a member of the body of Christ (Church) anymore. I am not talking about unbelievers but Christians.
I hear some say "it's not just walking down an isle and saying a simple prayer that you believe" I wonder to myself, if the thief on the cross hanging next to Jesus went to be with Him at death and all he did is simply believed in Jesus and asked to be saved, what changed? I know he did not have a complete and full knowledge of the bible or how to walk in righteousness when he asked. It is probably a good thing he died right away or he may have lost what he thought he had.
People are teaching all kinds of things and "add ons" about how to be "saved" but the Word of God says:
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)
"8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." (Ephesians 2:9, 10)
So what does "saved" mean to people today that is so different from that thief's experience with Jesus? What does it mean to say you are "saved"? Is it a gift of God's grace or is it a gift of God but you must add on the work of man? Isn't the blood of Jesus sufficient to save? Is the blood of Jesus today being compared to that of the animals brought to the OT temple and only applies to the sin confessed at the time their blood was shed so the process needed to be repeated over and over again for the rest of their lives?
That is what many Christians are saying without realizing it. That is what it means to say that the doctrine of "once saved always saved" is not of God. They are saying Christ's blood is the same as those animals when they say that. They are saying it is not sufficient to save. But God's immutable word is the only test of truth for it says this about the difference of the blood of animals and that of Christ as our High Priest and His blood:
"23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever." (Hebrews 7:23-28)
Billyb, I'm sorry to go on and on yet I am not sorry because it is not the opinions of men that people must put their trust in but the word of Almighty God! The doctrine of grace that Paul preached, brought revelation to a people who had their whole lives attempted to be made righteous before God by the blood of animals and keeping of the law (works).
Saved by grace through faith in the days of Paul is still Saved by grace through faith today. Christ's blood is sufficient to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him.
Yet some confidently say, NO, you are not "safe" as long as you live. There is no such thing as once saved, always saved. You are never "safe" until you see Him face to face. You can never enter into His rest simply trusting the blood of Jesus as your assurance of salvation while you live. You have to keep working at being saved to be sure you really are "safe". You can become unsaved by what you do or neglect to do.
Is this the same "saved" Jesus graciously gave to the thief on the cross that day and that Paul and the Apostles taught about?
Has the definition of "saved" somehow changed in the 21st Century? Has there been a salvation paradigm shift in the teaching of the churches today? Has God moved the bar on us?
Why is there so much confusion about what this word "saved" means? How is it that the body of Christ is so divided over its meaning? |
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Author: Billy Beard+
Posted Aug 04 2012 07:48:42pm
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kogfamily, I am sorry you are troubled. These are troubling times. Picking and choosing the verses to believe by, and ignoring others, in the same Bible, is what I personally see. We accept BOTH, the promises, and also the warnings. When we do, it clears up a lot of the confusion.
The verses we could list, of promises, and warnings, would be lengthy, and so a one or two verse example would just not cover the subject. I will give one example. I knew a deacon, of the osas camp, who was habitually drinking and committing adultery. When I asked him about the verses listed, from Paul's epistles, and if he continued to practice what he was doing, would he still be 'saved', his answer was yes. Well, we see a clear contradiction to what Paul wrote, and taught. And, much of the rest of the NT as well, including what Jesus taught. Some will be rejected, who did much in the name of Christ. He said that Himself. They are ones who 'practice lawlessness', 'workers of iniquity'. We are 'doers', and not 'hearers' only. One can not claim to be 'saved', and yet not be saved from the practices of immorality, or the sins of the flesh, can they? In discussions regarding, we can't simply refuse to consider the warnings, or commands to repent, endure, hold fast, overcome. 'Come out'. What if there are some who are yet 'partakers of her sins'? I would believe they have ignored the warnings, and that despite unto the Spirit of grace, and the blood of Christ. We just believe it all, is the answer. I hope that you continue here, and everywhere else the gospel and the scripture is presented. But, these are indeed 'troubling' times. I understand your feelings, and frustrations. God Bless you. |
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Author: kogfamily+
Posted Aug 04 2012 10:03:53pm
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Thank you for your wise response. I am thankful for the grace of God which includes His loving hand of discipline and correction when I need it. He told us to walk in the Spirit to get victory over the flesh but only those born again can do that. I agree with your definition of "saved" that includes salvation from slavery to sin day by day.
Those who belong to the Lord and are rebellious, God will discipline as harshly as necessary to turn them around even unto the destruction of the body by death if they don't respond by turning back to Him in repentance. Those who don't belong to the Lord, will continue in sin and religious self delusion eventually busting hell wide open unless God in His grace also draws them to repentance and new life.
At one time in our lives we were all that vile sinful, deluded, rebellious person until God in His mercy reached down and removed the blinders so that we could respond to His goodness extended to us in Christ Jesus, repent and receive new life. No one deserves to be saved and no one can keep themselves saved. It is all the grace of God through faith in Christ.
This is my last post. I believe my time here has been exhausted so I am moving me on to another field as the Spirit leads.
May God bless you and all the other brothers and sisters here who love the Lord. Keep on preaching the gospel and sharing scripture by the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of God. May all you do build the kingdom and bring Him glory until we all meet one day in His kingdom.
In Him,
kogfamily |
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Author: Billy Beard+
Posted Aug 05 2012 04:45:17am
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Godspeed to you. I do hope and pray that you visit and comment some here. You are needed. But I do understand, I have often wanted to do the same. God would not give me peace about it though.
God desires all to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. As Jesus was entering Jerusalem toward the time of crucifixion, He said how often He would have gathered them together, as a hen does her chicks, but they would not. God is sovereign over all sin, rebellion,unbelief, hard-heartedness, and He also allows all of these, obviously. We will never be able to explain, fully, nor will we ever change what He said in His word. His word will not allow that. Personally I just accept both. Neither side of the camp can claim superiority over the other. Or have anything to boast about, except all we have in Jesus Christ, as we abide in Him, and can do through the Holy Spirit of God, as we obey.
Thank you for your comments. I welcome them. And I desire the same for you. That will be a glorious time, indeed. In Christ Jesus, Billy. |
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Author: iraqivetsgtret+
Posted Aug 06 2012 02:32:25am
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not just thank you my brother for having the courage to write this blog but the way you with responded with love to the other comments. be blessed and encouraged my brother |
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Author: jdjames+
Posted Aug 12 2012 09:11:56am
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I am saddened to see kogfamily has left. We see through a glass darkly, so there will be questions that some answer one way some another. billyb, you have touched on a subject that stirs many responses, some one way, some another. We must all continue to search the scriptures as God directs. Yes if we believe and live Romans 10:9 and 10, we are saved. And it is hearing the word brings about our faith, not necessarily reading it, so the "we" must be those who desire to search. I pray that our searching causes us to sharpen one another, "iron sharpens iron", and that we know the ring the of truth as God reveals more of His many secrets hidden in this amazing book for life. God bless kogfamily, i also hope you return, I will miss your support and intelligent and well thought out blogs and comments, and God bless you billyb for your searching and showing your heart with courage. jd |
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Author: Billy Beard+
Posted Aug 12 2012 12:40:33pm
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I am saddened too, but always hopeful about unity among the body of Christ. I treasure Rom. 10:9,10, along with many other verses in God's word of scripture we have. They are not stand alone, just as any other part of the scripture, but a part of the whole of God's word to us. We have promises, and also warnings, and both are to be accepted.
I know that kogfamily understands this too. This blog was not intended as a debate about osas, or free-will, however. Some are attempting to discredit Paul, and his writings, and that was what I blogged about.
We have many here who are among many denominations. We have many who are stand-alone, and do not attend any congregation, it appears.
I am glad to know you are a member here. The only times we see really clear, is when we focus on Jesus Christ, with all that we are, I believe. All the fullness of Gods calling is through, in, and for Him. God Bless you sister. Billy |
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