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Legislation may change the way some people behave on the outside but it will not change their heart. I am in no way suggesting we should vote for laws which are harmful to people and I believe things like abortion are; not just to the child but to the mother as well. However, preventing her from having an abortion will not help her in the long run. Showing her Christ will!
In all honesty, if all of us were truly following Christ the way we are supposed to, abortion would no longer be an issue.
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Posted 08/15/2008 07:07am
Author: kreynolds
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Abortion, at it's base is a denial of responsibilty for one's actions. That being said I'd like to point out that it does no good to take a woman contemplating abortion and berate her as you pointed out,unless we can actively show her a better way. Telling a woman about Christ's love is good, but, we need to be more Christlike in our actions toward these woman, they need spiritual, emotional and financial support.
I had/have a problem with Christians that scream "abortioni is murder" (even though it is) without offering an alternative to the abortion, even if it means taking that girl/woman into your life and home and helping her. (that would be more Christlike...)
and about Mary... "back in the day" she would have been taken outside the village and stoned to death according to Levitical law, which is anotherREASON Our Savour's Birth is so miraculous. Joseph wanted to protect her from such a fata which is why the Bible tells us he wanted to put her away privately. A public separation would have laad to her and her child's death. And as far as social ills go... Abortion is America is not just a social ill. it's the active, premeditated assault with intent to kill a child! Jesus Himself said in[bible]Matthew 18:6[/bible] and if that's the judgement for leading a child into sin.. what about all the admonishments frlom Leviticus to Acts about not sacrificing children to molech?
While it is true that the sacrifice of children to molech is not officialy sanctioned or recognzed here in the states, the core issse remains... the folk that worshipped molech were promiscuous, and they had a lot of unwanted kids...
our society has become more promiscuous, and more selfish and instead of cherishing our children, they are seen as disposable... [bible]Psalms 127:3[/bible] God isn't going to allow His reward to be treated as a disposable item!
Yes, we do need to speak against aboortion, and, promiscuity as well!(actually that rools into the ball of wax we like to call morality and it's not being "hlier than thou" to want to re-establish a moral compass that is woefully off center!
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Posted 08/15/2008 07:51am
Author: blackrose65
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Thank you for your comments. This is, of course, a very difficult subject to write about. I must say that this was prompted by a blog defending the right of a thirteen year girl who had been raped (or so the pretense) to have an abortion so as to not ruin her life. Within the aforementioned blog the writer was extremely upset with the "holier than thou" attitude most Christians take toward subjects such as abortion and I am sure homosexuality etc.
My point here is to present the opinion that perhaps Christians have made the anti-abortion cause worse by their borderline harassing tactics used in front of clinics and other places. A better way is to manifest the love of Christ.
B2Y
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Posted 08/15/2008 11:47am
Author: blessings2you
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B2Y,
Earlier I sat down and typed out a most eloquent and theologically sound response to your blog but apparently am no math wizard and my masterpiece was lost forever in the CB cyberspace.
Anyway, I wonder why most of us can't understand that there are no degrees of sin. We want to think that the abortionist or the woman who chooses an abortion is a bigger sinner than those of us who "only" gossip. We want to think that we, who "only" steal paperclips and legal pads and pens from our employer are so much better than the child molester. That homosexual physical activity is no greater a sin than is heterosexual activity between those not married to each other.
I agree with brother wormwood, that the church is not to remain silent in the face of atrocity, although I don't think anyone here has said the church should be silent. We need to speak wisely and with the love and the grace and the compassion of Christ.
Which, if we truly understood that sin is sin is sin and that we are EQUALLY guilty of EQUAL sin than that of those we want to convert, our words would be spoken wisely and with grace and love and compassion.
Which is far more effective than picket signs and other heinous methods used by those calling themselves Christian.
Thanks for the post.
Gracie
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Posted 08/15/2008 05:12pm
Author: savedbyegrace
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Thank you for putting this into the right perspective. My point is simply that, as Christians we need to find bigger and more loving ways to deal with situations than just doing what the world does. The world is an expert at carrying signs, yelling at people and even shooting people they don't agree with. No where is there any justification for such antics in God's Word. They, in fact, set back the cause.
People will stop and listen if they have a good enough reason to. Someone contemplating an abortion certain will many times stop and change their plans if someone has enough love to sit down and listen and talk and listen some more. So many times women feel trapped and are afraid and don't know what else to do. Many times they simply respond to the pressure put on them by the father of the child. Literally thousands upon thousands of lives have been spared by the tireless work of many people who have devoted the time and love needed to show a scared young lady there is "a better way".
This same principle holds true for all social ills. It is very easy to simply stand back, point fingers and condemn. Unfortunately, very few people respond positively to such tactics. We, as Christians, need to become more mature and have much more compassion and far less judgment. We need to inject the love of Christ into the situations and refuse to fall prey to the temptation to scold and wag the finger.
Anyway, thanks for the great comments on this very sensitive issue.
B2Y
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Posted 08/15/2008 06:23pm
Author: blessings2you
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B2Y,
I agree with you but the thing that struck me while I was reading this and reading through the comments was that Christians tend to be passionate people which makes them passionate about what they see as evil and makes them take up causes. Does that make them right or wrong? Should that happen? I don't know. It does happen. I think, if we dont' like how it's happening, then we should react/respond differently than they are.
Can we confront them and say, "you can't say those things to these women who are considering abortion because that's not right and doesn't conform to scripture."
How many of them would listen to us if we did any more than the women considering abortion are listening to them?
And no, wormwood, there are no degrees of sin. Would it matter to you more if I made you brownies and put in only a tablespoon of dog poo or if I put in half a cup of dog poo? Dog poo is dog poo. Sin is sin. To man it matters if you only steal some money from your mom's purse as a kid or rape someone as an adult ... but to Christ it is all sin and we are all lost and all are in need of redemption.
Blessings,
Erin
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Posted 08/16/2008 08:03pm
Author: throughfaith
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The issue becomes clear and yet not so clear. If we think about me and my salvation and let the world take it's course and fate. Well that is certainly an option. But I'm concerned about my children and what ideas they pick up. I cannot shelter them from the filth of th world and the pressure to err. In Daniel 9, there's an account of the Lord visiting the people of the that time, and he said to one dressed in white, write a mark on all those in the city who moan and complain about the abominations that are committed therein.
Then he said to a death angel with a sword, smite young and old, man and mainden and infant that does not have the mark, start in my sactuary. And the death angel did as he was told and smote those that did not have the mark. The Lord said, have not pity, smite without mercy...
So the Lord does care of what is going on in our city, abortion, marriage of same sex individuals and so on. We may not be able to change society, but the Lord does hear our moans and complain about what goes on in city and nation. May you be blessed. Amen.
thbg
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Posted 08/16/2008 09:53pm
Author: tohimbeglory
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Thank you for the very insightful comments. I believe it is vital to keep in mind that our greatest example in all matters dealing with living love is that of Jesus Christ. In reading the Gospels, I fail to see how Jesus spent most of his time confronting and protesting sin per se. Jesus taught constantly how to live a life that would glorify God, but he also understood that anyone drawing breath on this earth was going to fall short of that glory.
Jesus gave His life a sacrifice for sin to redeem us and make us righteous. Although we still sin, in all kinds of degrees, the blood of Jesus paid for that sin. Grace demands the freedom to walk without sin consciousness. Love demands we strive to walk without sin. Mercy demands release from penalty when we do sin. There is no way to live and walk for God without His grace, love and mercy. Without these things, we are nothing but wretched sinful flesh.
Those who do not know God or of His grace, love and mercy need someone to reach out and show them that there is a way out of sin and its consequence and that is through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus. Temporary fixes such as abortion are the end result of failure to accept God's grace, love and mercy. Once a person realizes the full extent of all God has done for us and all we have available to us in Christ, all behavior which is an abomination to God falls away as we put on the new man and become the new creation promised in Christ.
Abortion is an abomination to God. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. Same sex marriage is an abomination to God. Stealing, adultery, covetousness and greed are abominations to God. What are we to do when surrounded by a world in which the vast majority of people not only do these things but see nothing wrong with doing them? We can condemn the sin and show how Jesus paid the price for the sin and through Him deliverance from sin (salvation) is available. We can condemn the person for sinning and scare them into a pseudo salvation experience which will last as long as the fear.
When studying how Jesus dealt with some of the worst sinners he encountered, more times than not, he simply loved them and allowed them to freely love Him. He then taught them to go and sin no more. Forgiveness of sin must never be overlooked when dealing with sin and Christ's payment for it. Never do we condone sins such as abortion. But, I believe we should seek to find a way to show people why there is a better way and not just that their way is wrong.
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Posted 08/17/2008 04:12am
Author: blessings2you
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Jesus was not at all shy when he told the Pharisee and the experts in the Law that thier father was the devil and their desire was to do his will. John the baptist was not shy either when he would confront Herod and would yell at him that it was unlawfall to marry his brother's wife. Jesus said that no one lights a candle and put it under a bushel. Certainly I can do anything about what anybody choses to do, but what if my son picks up the idea that he is gay or my daughter had this notion that she likes girls, just because others are doing it, then it begins to affect me and my life.
Its good to be courteous and polite and politically correct, but there come a time when you just have to tell someone or someones what the bible says about a subject. In 2Tim 2:25 it says," Be gentle when you when you try to teach those that who are against what you say.That may God change their hearts so they will turn to the truth. Then they will know that they had been held in trap by the devil to do when he wanted them to do. But now they are able to get out of it."
And it's a fact that to change mens hearts we can only pray God gives us the repentance. May you be blessed. Amen.
thbg
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Posted 08/17/2008 07:27am
Author: tohimbeglory
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There is a time and a place for confrontation. As you say, Jesus confronted the leaders for they were responsible for misleading the people. Of course we must confront those who are in positions of influence and use that influence to mislead, distort and abuse the truth. That is a topic for another post.
There is a world of difference between how one would deal with the man or woman advocating or performing an abortion vs. the one thinking about having one. I have in the past and would in the future "get in the face" of a person trying to drag another into his or her cesspool of filth. But, I would think long and hard before I "got in the face" of the one being drug in unless that was all they responded to.
I am the least politically correct guy on earth and the last thing I will ever do is back down from dealing with someone or something that is wrong and needs to confronted. The Bible is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF, correction and instruction in righteousness. Again, we are dealing with two separate subjects here, and both need to be looked at and investigated.
I guarantee you that I had the chance to tell the head of a television network what I thought, they would haul me out to jail. But, I am not going to stand on the street corner telling everyone who passes by they are sinners and going to hell either. Perhaps that worked in the 1800's (and it did), but in today's culture it is counter productive.
I am not talking about being polite and courteous, although there is nothing wrong with being that. I am talking about how we approach one who has been or is thinking about getting caught in the snare of sin. I believe the Word in Timothy is very clear to be gentle in such matters while reserving all boldness for those whose conscience has been hardened and whose only desire is to lead others astray.
B2Y
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Posted 08/17/2008 07:42am
Author: blessings2you
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It is very important to recognize the difference between "SIN" as what entered the world through Adam's transgression and which is the absolute basis of the natural man's separation from God, and "sin" which describes any time fellowship is broken with God. When it comes to "SIN", there is no difference and no degree. SIN is SIN is SIN. But, when it comes to the "sins" committed by people, there is absolutely degrees and differences of "sins".
Jesus paid the price for "SIN" and "sins" on Calvary. His perfect and pure blood cleansed us from all unrighteousness whether going back to Adam's SIN or the lie we told Aunt Mary yesterday. Not only in this discussion, but numerous others, it is vital to understand the difference between "SIN" and "sins". Otherwise there is constant confusion and misunderstandings.
B2Y
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Posted 08/17/2008 07:46pm
Author: blessings2you
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That's a good point.
I have a question. Does it really matter if there are various levels of punishment in hell depending on what sort of sins a person committed? The bottom line is there is nothing worse than to have God say to you: [bible]Matthew 25:41[/bible] What punishment could be worse than that?
Through the blood of Jesus, we can be saved. John tells us [bible]1 John 1:9[/bible] It seems to me we need to be examining ourselves daily and asking God to help us live our lives in a manner which is pleasing to him. We need to ask him to make us aware of sin which tries to creep into our lives. We need to repent when the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin which has gained a foothold in our lives. As followers of Christ, we shouldn't want any trace of sin in our lives no matter how minute it may seem.
As far as the original topic of this blog...
I think the point trying to be made was as Christians our primary focus needs to be on changing the hearts of people through bringing them the Good News of Jesus Christ. By all means, help the poor and suffering. Vote against laws which are harmful to society. Work towards making positive changes in society but don't ever forget these things in themselves are not enough to change a person. They have to be changed from within and only God can do that. That needs to be our primary goal.
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Posted 08/17/2008 08:56pm
Author: kreynolds
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Yup, K is bringing us back off tangent to the point of the blog.
My real point in my response was simply this: We catch more flies with honey than vinegar!
Gracie
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Posted 08/17/2008 09:02pm
Author: savedbyegrace
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