Author: blessings2you
Posted Mar 02 2008 08:41:34pm
|
|
Please be advised that any further posts on this topic will be shorter and less formal in nature. I am sorry for the length and the "stuffy" tone of this introduction, but it was the only way to get started.
Thank You and God Bless you.
Blessings 2 You |
|
Author: allforhim
Posted Mar 03 2008 03:56:45am
|
|
I suffered from "legalism" for a little while and what it made me was a very condemning, judgmental Christian, with non-believers and especially with believers. It was my heart that was not right, I was like the Pharisee that looked over at the sinner and said to God "I am glad I am not like that sinner." God had to bring me pretty low before I could see clearly. Now I have strong integrity and morals but also I have mercy and compassion, now I can say "But for the grace of God there go I." As Paul says I was the chief sinner and if it were not for God's grace and mercy on a sinner like me salvation would not be mine. I did NOTHING to earn it. I also believe that "works" come from the fruit of the Spirit, if they are to be true works. I am so glad that we humans may look at the outer appearance but God looks at the heart. I do not have to earn favor, or try to earn my good rewards in heaven but simply love God with all my heart, soul and mind and love my neighbor as myself. His Spirit manifests itself in me and spurs me on to do that which is right. Thanks for a thought provoking blog and a rememberence of where I have come from. Blessings! Andrea |
|
Author: savedbyegrace
Posted Mar 03 2008 04:24:42am
|
|
I was once called (well, it was strongly implied) :) of being legalistic because of my insistence on a personal DISCIPLINE of having a morning quiet time. I have simply learned by trial and error what I need to do. Which fits more your first definition of legalism rather than the second definition. So just to add another dimension, there is a difference between legalism and solid discipline.
And the faith vs. works debate will rage on, I suppose, with verses such as:
Jam 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Jam 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
But as I realized last week and blogged about whether one can be condemned for not forgiving, it is a fruit of genuine salvation. So once we experience this genuine salvation, we are so overflowing with Christ that we forgive and do other good works, prepared in advance for us!
Great blog, brother. |
|
Author: kreynolds
Posted Mar 03 2008 05:19:50am
|
|
If the enemy can't destroy you one way, he'll try another. We see time and time again in both the gospels as well as in the rest of the New Testament how God feels about us focusing so much on the fault that we fail to see the person. An example I'm thinking of in particular is the adulterous woman. Her accusers saw her as an adulterer. That was true and she did break the law and deserved punishment. However, while Jesus knew what she had done, he saw her. He saw a lost and wounded lamb who desperately needed to know that in spite of everything, God loved her...even in the state she was in and if she would let him, he would lift her up out of the pit, tend to her wounds and make her well, strong and beautiful.
I'm looking forward to reading more. |
|
Author: iraqivetsgtret
Posted Mar 03 2008 06:57:07am
|
|
amen my brother and i appreciate the way you wrote what you belive needed to be written and explained what needed to be explained.and all the responces to your bloghas helped my perspective on the topic also.looking forword to read your next blog, keep your head up and stay strong and most of all be blessed |
|
Author: kraftykatz
Posted Mar 03 2008 08:47:01am
|
|
B2Y,
Some of what you wrote goes a bit over my head and I will need time to process all the information. Hopefully your future blogs on this subject will help.
You said many people focus on one religion or church when talking about legalism. I grew up in a community settled by the Dutch. As a child, the influence of the Christian Reformed doctrine ruled this community. I mention this only to show that maybe the reason some focus on one religion is because like me their exposure has been to primarily to one. We do have several other denominations, but the Reformed have the largest number of churches.
Just a thought.
KraftyKatz
drinking tea and contemplating what B2Y has written |
|
Author: harvest
Posted Mar 03 2008 11:15:18am
|
|
Just what is legalism? My thought is if you asked 12 individuals you would receive 12 different answers. I was raised in a church most people today would consider legalistic. However, there was never any question of justification. We are saved by Grace through faith in Jesus, our Lord. This was taught always. I'm thinking what would be considered legalistic was the preaching and teaching on holiness. Anyhow .. this started as a comment and grew much too large so I posted it as a blog, "Holiness to the Lord, Works to be Avoided".
Blessings
Praying for the Harvest |
|
Author: crosseyes
Posted Mar 03 2008 02:42:19pm
|
|
It also makes a difference if the person is Muslim or not but that doesn't take away from the fact that Jesus is Savior and God. I hear what you are saying, but there is an absolute truth within the Word of God that deals with the basics of our faith. And grace vs. good works isn't something that Christians can disagree upon.
For example, Christ is God. This isn't something you can argue against (like Sabbath worship), and still call yourself a Christian. It is a shame that in today's time of political correctiveness what I'm saying will probably offend someone, which is not my intent, but if you think for a second that the death and sacrifice of the Creator of the universe (whom stepped down off of His Throne of Glory, took on the incarnation of one of His creations and was tortured and killed by this very same creation so that the sin of the entire created race would be forgiven), is not sufficient enough for your salvation then may what I'm writing bless you and lead you to the Word of God so that He can open your eyes to the real truths of our Christian Faith.
His death was sufficient for every man, angel, and any other creation He sees fit to create for all of eternity. He doesn't need our help now nor will He ever need it. So yes, I would fit into the category of one of those Christians that thinks he has the absolute answer. The only problem is that this is not my answer, it is his.
We have to be careful as Christians because some things are not acceptable. We weren't sent here to placate every group or belief. Let's just present the Word of God unapologetically as it is and let God do the rest. I can't even believe that this is something that Christians would argue over. |
|
Author: crosseyes
Posted Mar 03 2008 09:04:18pm
|
|
Blessings2you, you have written what I think are some of the most spirit filled blogs on this site. And for that I thank God that you have fingers to type and I have eyes to read. But there are a few things on this post that maybe you could/should elaborate on. For starters you've posted "What is one to believe" regarding the Synoptic Gospels vs. Paul's writings as if there is a difference in theology between the two. Could you please show me where they differ because I haven't found a single contradiction?
Could you also clear up the part where you say that what Jesus said is okay as long as it is not superseded by what other prophets may say? Let's think about this one for a second, should a man's words hold more authority than that of the God of the Universe, the God who is the author of the faith that the prophets and apostles adhere to? God forbid. That's just like saying that a Privates' words may have more authority than the General's words who gave him the orders in the first place. That doesn't make any since. Furthermore, I haven't found where Paul contradicts the Lord, but if he did, may the letters that he wrote be torn from the Bible and burnt to ashes. Now for all those who have been blessed with that measure of faith, we know that God gave Paul those words through revelation by way of the Holy Spirit. So the essence of Paul's words was given by God and we know that there can be no contradiction between his and that of the Lords because a kingdom divided amongst itself cannot stand.
You may have the same problem that I had when I first came to the faith. I used to think that the Paul was a greater prophet than Jesus because he was strait forward and didn't talk in parables and there were plenty of practical applications that came from his words. But after carefully considering the Synoptic Gospels I discovered that that idea couldn't have been further from the truth. Which is greater, a prophet who talks about what he has seen or one that can only talk about what he has heard? Or a better example is this: let's say that a Great King came to town for a specific purpose above any other, but while he was in town he says to his people that loving your King with all your might will lead to the Kings favor and then he leaves to finish his work. Later, he sends a servant to elaborate on how the King wants to be loved. This doesn't give the servant more authority, it simply brings clarity to the Kings wishes.
You cannot break the Christian faith down to a science. I think as Christians sometimes we get so caught up in choosing which nonessential beliefs or labels we fall under, dispensationalist, legalism, etc. that we back track so far to the point that we find ourselves contradicting our own faith. KISS( Keep It Simple Stupid) that's the motto I live by. In conclusion, there could be no prophet greater than God himself who is the object of our faith. There are no words that have more authority than his. |
|
Author: blessings2you
Posted Mar 04 2008 12:30:00am
|
|
Time and space do not allow turning this into a "position papaer" on the pros and cons of dispensationalism, which is nothing but theological jargon anyway. Either one believes the Bible timeline is horizontal or vertical. In other words either each "era" or "age" stands on its own (horizontal) or each is built upon the other (verical).
The only reason the statement was made regarding things Jesus said vs. Paul was in relation to salvation. Jesus implied in Matthew, Mark and Luke that the criteria for salvation was different than Paul's throughout his epistles. Well, certainly that would expected since things such as the resurrection were not yet available when Jesus spoke (for he was still alive). Of course Paul was not a greater man of spokesman than Jesus, but Jesus could not speak of things that were still future and dealt with the results of his death and resurrection. He spoke of the time that was then present, and to his ministry then upon earth.
Secifically Jesus came to minister to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He came to Israel and they rejected him as their Messiah. He fulfilled all legal requirements to be Savior and after the resurrection he became head of his body and Lord and Christ.
Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus and called him to be an apostle to the Gentiles. Paul, who was a Jew, for a season preached Christ to fellow Jews, but later in Acts he tired of their unbelief and specifically went to the Gentiles whom he was called to minister. Together, the Jews and the Gentiles make up the church of God and are the one body of Christ. All these concepts were given to Paul to write about in his epistles addressed to the church.
There are millions upon millions of Christians who read the four gospels and never read any of Paul's letters for to them, they are not important. Unfortunately, without a knowledge of Paul's writings, one has little understanding of what is written to the church of God, the body of Christ. |
|
Author: tchable
Posted Mar 04 2008 06:50:22am
|
|
If only people could get this one verse in their spirit and receive revelation of its meaning and application to the Holy Scripture and God's time table then a very bright light would shine on their understanding of what has happened in the past, what is now, and what is to come.
Matthew 15:24 (NKJV) But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Blessings from NC |
|
Author: crosseyes
Posted Mar 04 2008 09:45:28am
|
|
Thank you for taking the time out to read my comments and respond to them. Some bloggers don't like to do that for fear of getting into a dispute that would lead to our natural selves showing their ugly heads. However, I think that as Christians we need to perfect the art of disagreeing in a calm, unconfrontational, Christian like manner. I think that in this way all parties can increase their knowledge and understanding of God's Word.
From my understanding in Mathew 15:24 the Lord was actually referring to his real purpose which was to redeem the ones he had chosen before the creation, both Gentile and Jew alike. |
|
|