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I surely would not want to give the enemy more credit than he deserves, but I have no doubt that satan is behind the fall of godly people. He waits like a crouched lion, waiting to pounce, and he knows when we are weakest.
Yes, we all fall. Jesus helps us get up, if only we would reach for him. I had a most unique experience several years ago. I stop short of calling it a vision, but truly it was Jesus giving me His hand to help me up.
I believe we forgive all who have fallen. But forgiveness does not mean we have to put these leaders back into their position without changes! For example, if the pastor was caught in an affair with his secretary and both are repentent, yes! we forgive. But do we reinstate their same jobs, same offices, without chaperones? No way. Or if the church treasurer was caught embezzling from the offering, yes! we forgive. But do we give him his job as treasurer back and expose him to the same temptation? No way.
Important topic, brother. Thanks for bringing it up.
Gracie
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Posted 08/20/2008 04:15am
Author: savedbyegrace
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By God's providence, you posted this at just the right time for me - as I have only recently experienced something similar to this very thing.
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Posted 08/20/2008 08:26am
Author: davidm
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Many years ago my pastor allowed a well known minister who had taken kingdom funds for his personal use deceiving many to preach at our church. I was serving as an elder at the time and I took great offense at with this. I felt like there should be no way this man should be allowed our pulpit to preach. This was a great learning experience for me. I had unforgiveness in my heart and needed to forgive. God brought me through this and cleansed me of my sin.
I still believe he should not have been given access to our pulpit because he had only recently been released from prison and had not been tried and tested. My sin was in my condemnation of him. I was judging and I had to repent of it.
The gifts and callings of God are without repentance. Ministers fall, they are human. Forgiveness is of God. However, like Grace, I believe there should be a period of testing and proving before they are allowed back in the pulpit sharing the message of Christ with others.
Blessings,
TchAble
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Posted 08/20/2008 08:56am
Author: tchable
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I agree totally that no one should be given back what they willingly forfeited through succumbing to the sins of the flesh. There are always consequences to our actions, and especially those of leaders within the church.
I believe a person must go through a cleansing period and then start from ground zero. I can think of no circumstance where a fallen leader should confess his/her sins and be given back their position as if nothing happened. This has been tried repeatedly with the same predictable results. There are always consequences to our actions, especially when we are leaders.
I guess what I was driving at in this post was the element of forgiveness and how many believers throw nothing but contempt and scorn at a fallen leader even when he/she has repented and made restitution for their actions. Lack of forgiveness is inexcusable under any circumstances, but especially so if one who was called by God to be a leader is involved.
Thank you for sharing your experience Tch for it communicates fully the heart of this post. For those reading this, please do not get the impression I am in favor of winking at indiscretions committed by leaders; to the contrary I am highly in favor of the cleansing and testing period before anyone be allowed to serve in position of leadership again.
B2Y
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Posted 08/20/2008 09:12am
Author: blessings2you
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Your point is so well-taken. As Christians we should jump up and down in our rush to forgive each other and thus be an example to the entire world. Yet, how slow we are to forgive.
Nothing is unforgiveable. Nothing. I only wish I hadn't had some many personal opportunities to practice forgiveness! Of course, I have been forgiven much. To whom much is given, much is required.
God bless you.
Gracie
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Posted 08/20/2008 01:32pm
Author: savedbyegrace
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Here's a funny thought,
we're all leaders, everything we say and do influences everyone around us.
Speaking of leadership anyone heard about an instance of this with www.freshfire.ca Todd Bentley's had a lil tumble.
I like to call them "Bumps in the Road" and deflate the situation.
Also the bible clearly states "Pray for your leaders".
Every great nation under god has armies of prayer warriors and intercessors.
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Posted 08/23/2008 05:38am
Author: lexyb
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Yes, another Christian example of living in a fallen world has been tempted of the enemy and did not bear up well.
Todd Bentley has been asked to step down from the Board of Directors of FreshFire Ministries. You can check out their website to see what the deal is.
Even though many disagreed that Mr. Bentley was truly worshiping in "spirit and truth", regardless we are to pray.
Perhaps some of the things that he was told to do at his OutPouring Revivals didn't actually come from God and he failed to use proper discernment, as Paul admonishes us ALL to do in his epistle to the Philippians.
May we all learn from each other.
YSIC,
Virginia
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Posted 08/23/2008 11:23am
Author: happytoberestored
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I have studied 1 Timothy 3 and recognize that it is very clear about the qualifications for leadership. There is no question that the aim of the enemy is to catch each and every Christian leader possible in his snare. That is not the issue here.
What is the Christian response to a leader who falls? What would Jesus Christ do if He were here? Would Jesus have taken Judas back if he would have repented for betraying Him? Jesus forgave Peter even though he denied Him three times. I have to believe Jesus would have taken back Judas at least as a follower if he would have repented.
Far too many times ordained men and women of God have sinned greatly and either the church covers for them and ships them off to another location to sin again or boots them out of the church onto the street. It has only been recently that groups have sprung up which minister to fallen ministers helping them overcome what brought them down and be whole again.
Of course a minister who fell prey to the sins of the flesh cannot expect to cry a few tears, beg for forgiveness and be given his/her old position back again. That is not the correct Biblical approach at all. The root problem must be overcome and the person must be tested to see if it has. Then and only then can the person perhaps be allowed so serve in some capacity.
B2Y
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Posted 08/26/2008 11:01am
Author: blessings2you
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Perfection is in the Lord and every man/woman is going to fall short of that perfection sooner or later. When it comes to being a leader of God's people, a person has to be beyond reproach, yes, but that does not perfect. Jesus forgave Peter and appointed him leader of His church. I do not believe there can be absolutes when it comes to this field.
I do not believe a legalistic approach can be taken with respect to an extremely personal matter such as the sins of a Christian leader. Under no circumstances should a man or woman be left in a position of leadership after a grave sin of the flesh has been discovered; even if repentance is involved. But, once a person has changed I still see no reason to eternally punish a person by not allowing them any arena of service at all.
Like most matters, I do not believe there are cut and dry absolutes in the Word of God dealing with these situations. Great wisdom must be sought and great love manifested to protect the body of believers who were hurt by the actions of the leader; but also to protect the leader from destruction by the enemy.
B2Y
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Posted 08/28/2008 05:22pm
Author: blessings2you
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I wonder - Does God require a period of testing when we ask for His forgiveness when we've sinned or does He just forgive so we can go on with His plans for our lives.
Blessings
pooh
PS
Just so you know I'm as guilty as anyone in this matter.
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Posted 08/08/2009 10:12am
Author: poodlelady
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I am inclined to think God does require this when it comes to a leader but absolutely not in our individual walks. I believe the books of Timothy and Titus clearly show that leaders in the church have a higher standard to abide by and logic would dictate that if they fall, they would need to prove themselves faithful before being placed in a leadership role again.
B2Y
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Posted 08/08/2009 07:37pm
Author: blessings2you
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I am all in favour of forgiving someone who is truly repentant and I am with you as to starting again at 'ground zero'. I do admit though, that I sometimes wonder whether some are sorry for their crime or just sorry they got caught. That in itself is, I think, a strong argument for starting at the bottom again.
kbird
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Posted 08/08/2009 10:03pm
Author: kiwibird
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I agree that those who repent of their folly and have proven the earnestness of the contrite heart, should be given a second chance in ministry. Tthere are different levels of ministry, and restoration to ministry must come at a price to someone who has breached the trust of God's children - it need not necessarily be at ground zero, not to full reinstatement all at once , but at the appropriate level of compassion, the Lord leads the church leadership.
The other concern I have which has not been discussed is the treatment of the family of the fallen one. The pain, anguish, the humiliation and the sorrow, must be so deep for a pastor's wife and children. I would hope that the family would not be ostracised from service by brothers and sisters especially when they also the victims. I would hope and pray that compassion will flow to such who suffer the trauma of shame brought on by a cheating husband or a church thief, as they automatically withdraw to isolation. It is really is so easy to condemn the sinner and his family - but please don't. The family deserves love and protection against public condemnation. The next time it happens, do spare a thought for the family in the fall-out.
B2Y it is a very sensitive subject you have raised... ..but these are the ultimates of Christian love which should be dealt with- can the offended forgive a fellow brother or sister who slipped and fell as the Lord does?
ptl2008
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Posted 08/09/2009 02:09am
Author: ptl2008
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Brother I thank you for this blog. I did not comment for such a long time because I really had to chew on it. The reality is that we do not know the hearts of men. Only God does. For some repentance is swift and complete, or some it takes a lifetime, for some a season, and sadly, some never do. There are two components to your question: Should we forgive? and Should we restore to leadership? The answer to the first is an unequivocal yes and I would even add that forgiveness must be tangible in the way we deal with the fallen, sometimes we practice a form of shunning that betrays the true condition of our heart. The answer to the second is more difficult and I would suggest that prayer, wisdom, and discernment must be our watchwords.
Arisen
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Posted 08/09/2009 04:44am
Author: arisensleeper
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I have fallen so hard many of times. Getting up is the most difficult challenge. Doctors have told me I suffer from PTSD, extreme bi-polar, ect. Yet I will never take the medications. Im not saying its right not to listen to your doctor, but for me it is. I would rather deal with the issues by talking, praying/meditation, and helping others. And yes certain people loved the option to "kick me while I am down". But we cannot stoop to there level. We must always offer that gentle hand. I wish i had the hand to help me, so I know how great it can help. The next time you run into someone that has fallen, make sure you be the one to help them up, it will help you also step to the next level. As for "leaders" falling, they are just as equal as me or you, and may fall to the sin of flesh. I agree they should be tested before given there postion back, but tested by God only.
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Posted 08/11/2009 01:23am
Author: faithfulservent
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