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Vasovagal Syncope: Slain in the Spirit

Cool word Huh? It is the physiological phenomenon of a person passing out from a blood draw, a traumatic event or standing to long, like I saw when standing in formation while in the Air Force. After quite a while men would fall to the ground. Even President Obama had some swoon in his presence...I think some of them believed it to be a spiritual experience.

Vasovagal syncope is simply as follows: When heart rate slows, blood pressure drops, and the resulting lack of blood to the brain causes fainting.

Many of us have seen or been involved in a church service where there was “Slaying in the Spirit.” We have wondered is this from God? We have wondered are they making it up? Is there a Biblical example of God moving in this way?

I’ve been around this for quite a few years, as my first experiences in the Church were with people who embraced this.
Once with an individual I tested it. I was a catcher, which means I was to hold their weight as they fell to the ground under the “Power of the Spirit.” When they went to fall, I pulled away my hands from under their arms and they jerked forward thinking I wouldn’t catch them.

Everyone I have interviewed of their experience with “Slaying in the Spirit” have said they went down to satisfy the person who was praying for them. This relieved the pressure they were feeling under the crowd and the prayers expectation. They simply went down. Laying on the floor they looked at others just like them, but not all were there simply to please.

I was once at a church that was heavy into this sort of thing. I was the special guest speaker. After the sermon it was time to lay-on-hands and I was eager to oblige. People were falling down, they began speaking in tongues, others began shaking and moaning.

The pastor’s wife had me lay hands on her four year old. As he approached me his eyes rolled, he closed his eyes and began to fall back.

A few days later I went to the pastor and told him that he had trained the people of his church and used auto suggestion to get them to perform the way they had. I told him at my church it never happens when I pray for people. I challenged him to come to our church and insured him it wouldn’t happen. A matter of fact some of my congregation were there. Some tried to push them down. But with no compulsion of the Holy Spirit they resisted their pushes. The pastor was disgruntled and he did not invite me back.

A friend of mine that was working with a big name pastor who came to town had an interesting experience. He was excited to see the Spirit move and joined to help them in their crusade. While at one of the meetings they tried to slay him which he was eager to accept but nothing was happening. They began to push him but he resisted. After the meeting they rebuked him saying he needed to go down next time because he was embarrassing and discrediting their ministry.

Under the pressure of the crowd and the expectations of the Prayer many go down. It is easier to just go along with it. Some through auto suggestion (power of suggestion or placebo effect) go down. Auto suggestion is when someone tells the person what the person will experience so the person is more inclined to respond accordingly. It works! This is used for inducing recipients to manifest tongues also.

Now others really pass out I believe. I am not afraid to surmise that in these rare occasions they experienced vasovagal syncope. They actually pass out because of the build-up, the expectation of a “Touch from God”, the pressure of being in front of a crowd of heavily expectant worshipers, standing for a time with knees locked, a deep desire to see God move and auto suggestion.

Now once this happens, where one really passes out this inflames the unwitting and desirous of God to go up in hope to have the same experience. Under the influence of auto suggestion and all the previous pressure they fall down-I might add with endorphins pumping-regularly claiming a brush with the Holy Spirit thus encouraging others to “let loose and let God.” The cascade has begun and will never stop. Many become true believers in the experience never to question or turn aside. They become real evangelists of the experience, the best kind of salesman.

All this becomes a strange spiritual circus that hypnotists and charlatans are envious.

Yes, it becomes enviable to the rest of us seekers who wish to have an experience but are not moved by the schemes of men. We hope for a real touch from God.

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Posted: May 04 2012 05:37:50pm by clifrad+
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Author: clifrad+
Posted May 04 2012 10:17:51pm
  Thanks...I like the feelings I get when my mind, heart and spirit are linked close to God also. It is exhilarating.

In His love.

Cliff

Author: Billy Beard+
Posted May 05 2012 03:59:38am
  This is a deep subject, so I need to blog about some of this, to keep from a lengthy comment. One who is fully surrendered to The Holy Spirit "walks in the Spirit". They are being conformed unto the image of Jesus Christ, their Saviour and their Lord.

It is not by laying on the floor for hours, barking like a dog, crowing like a rooster (this is done in some of those services), laughing uncontrollably at nothing. A person fully surrendered to the Holy Spirit are convicted of any sin that does not honor the Holy God. "Cursing" they used habitually turns into only words worthy of one who is controlled by the Holy Spirit. They don't need the alcohol, drugs, line of coke or crack, their desire is to be like Jesus Christ, their redeemer.

They don't want to dress like hollywood, or the street woman advertising, they want to dress in modesty, as scripture teaches. They don't need to display how muscular they are, biceps, abs, or such, they do the same.

When they have gotten past all the fleshly fruits, that manifest outside, 1st Cor. 6:9-13, Eph. 5:1-11, Gal. 5:13-21. Then they will also start to manifest Godliness, Holiness, as one truly 'slain', flesh crucified unto Jesus Christ, THROUGH the cross of Christ, they are 'dead' to themselves, and alive through and in Jesus Christ, and submissive to the Lordship of Christ, Gal. 5:22-26. 2nd Pet. 1:4-11, 1st Pet. 1;13-25. And other scripture that will say the same.

Church services, or other such gatherings, though we do gather together to worship and fellowship, in and of themselves, are just a small part of living the Christian life. We gather to worship, study, pray, fellowship, praise, teach, preach, sing to the Lord, learn, etc. But the purpose of these are to go out and witness, through our words and our actions, and to show the world the love of God, through the Lord Jesus Christ. That we have found things the world just can not offer, or have. To be firstfruits of others who will come, hungry and thirsty for all God has, through His Son Jesus Christ. Too long. Brother, God Bless.

Author: clifrad+
Posted May 05 2012 11:50:44am
  Yes.

Interestingly a crowd is really drawn through this activity. People get inspired and people come to Christ and some get saved. Most of the world now is being taken through these moves.

I'm currently working with a group that is involved in some of this and trying to gently educate them.

It is precarious high wire act. But we are making advances.

Thanks.

Cliff

Author: jackal
Posted May 05 2012 08:45:56am
  Clifrad, it's sad to say but I think your analysis is right - 99.9% of the time.

My first encounter of this sort of thing was at a new church when one of the pastors unexpectedly asked me to come forward as he had 'seen' something he needed to pray about after the meeting. I went forward and waited for him, not really knowing what it was about but expecting a short prayer of encouragement or similar. The pastor was standing on his own praying with his eyes closed for a while, as I waited rather impatiently. He then started to walk towards me but had said absolutely nothing; at that time I felt what was like a shock run through my body and a feeling of release from something. I fell to the floor, knocking into the first row of seats. I was not 'slain' as such but I lost all power in my legs, my upper body was fine. I was embarrassed and concerned with what was happening. I was unchurched, young, strong, pretty skeptical and had never seen this sort of thing before. I kept trying to stand up but failed. I was picked up by two men and half carried into a small room nearby. The pastor then told me that he had felt the Lord told him to pray for a release for me from a 'generational spirit'. (My parents were also visiting there that day and my mother told me afterwards that she felt an incredible 'shock' as the pastor walked towards me.) It took me nearly 10 minutes to recover the use of my legs and walk out. I still do not know exactly what occurred but there was no hype, no expectation; I have never had another experience like this.

Since then I have seen 100s of people 'slain' and I am also skeptical of the whole thing, however I did occasionally see some who went down like a light switched off and even once a man looked like he was 'hit' backwards about three yards (nothing touched him) and was out for nearly 3 hours (I still know this man and he claims to have been delivered from a spirit of violence that day - he was a special ops leader, had a real anger / bitterness problem and was incredibly stubborn; since that day he has been an incredibly humble, peaceful man. It was a turning point in his life and he became a pastor.)

What happens in some churches I've been to seems almost to be a mockery and brings scorn on christianity, but I don't want to judge as we never know what God does in people's hearts and lives - even when we are hypocritical or wanting attention, etc. I'll leave God to judge the Pastors and Evangelists who 'exploit' this 'phenomenon'.

Author: clifrad+
Posted May 05 2012 12:05:36pm
  The mix of endorphins and the vasovagal syncop are real. These are simply physiological.

Various events can cause them to fire off. Spiritual high emotion spiritual evens at church just one way.

I like the feeling of endorphins but that isn't the object in worship but can be a result. I like it. It resembles an opiate in their ability to releases analgesia and produces euphoria.

Not the target but sometimes the result.

Vasoval syncop I believe is rare. Most of slain in the Spirit is auto suggestion and endorphins with a little push.

So I agree with you just the confusing of these things with a miraculous touch from God and getting people hooked like junkies going back to chase this experience is bad.

A major distraction.

Good comments.

Cliff

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