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Mining the depths of the conversation - Jesus and the rich young ruler
Never tell God to shut his floodgates in your life
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I am new at blog(ing) started yesterday. I have read some of the blog(ers) in-put. It is a great site to put your feeling down and having people help each other live for Jesus Christ. Having read some of the in-put I see that there are many different feeling about tithing. All are good if used to edify each other and help each other grow in the Grace of God. Some I see make people think about an issue and spawns study in our daily devotions. As for me this happened in a conversation with a friend (who has been invited to the Christian site). It happened about 3 years ago and it went like this...

My friend asked me if tithing was a New Testament teaching people must follow. I tried to answer quickly with a YES. He asked me three times and my answer was still yes. At the third time he asked me, I told him I would study the topic and get back to him. After about two weeks of intense study, I called him up and told him to give me more time. I was trying to defend teaching. Then I started to see things I never seen before. I called him up about a month later to talk about my findings. We were both shocked. It is a touchy subject because we attach so much to it. But in study of the Word of God one must rightly divide the Word of God. Some have misapplied the Word of God and this will cause a false liberty or false condemnation which will not benefit a follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus wants us to walk in His Word and in His Spirit. I would like to write down some of my findings. Hope we can have a nice debate no matter your stance on the topic.

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Published: Aug 24 2007 09:33:56am

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Patsy balcom (@ibelieve)
Aug 24 2007 08:00:43pm
  I admire your courage to speak the truth. You are sooo... corect about walking in the word and the spirit. This subject (tithing)has come up repeatedly in my study group. Not because we are not willing to give just simply because we desire to teach the words of the Gospel as they are meant to be interpreted, so that we can teach the word truthfully. Thank you for your dedication to your discipleship.

Andrea Lynn (@allforhim)
Aug 25 2007 07:15:15am
  I look forward to seeing your findings, I have been convicted in the same vein. Blessings and welcome! Andrea

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 25 2007 09:09:17am
  I am glad once again to share what the Lord has written in His Word and given to us by His Spirit. We can start with were did tithing start and who tithe. Abram was the first man in scripture that gave tithes. Genesis 14:18-20 (KJV) 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. KJV the reason I use KJV it has NO copyright Laws attach to it Thank God. Hebrews 7:4 (KJV) 4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. It is the scripture (Hebrews) that most preaching on tithing comes from or reference at the very least is made to Hebrews. I would like to know if you ever heard preaching on tithing where this Abraham account of giving tithes is brought up and how was it tied into the way christians now needs to pay or give tithes of their income. As we write, I would like to know what you have "heard" or understand yourself in scripture, so we can discuss some if not all the scriptures on this topic. I believe it will be fun and encouraging for us all, and that light could and should be shed on this subject. I would like to write much more but lets leave it open to questions and understanding you may have on the above account or any other verse you see or have heard it preached, so we can grow together in the Grace of God which is in Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Nathan Lambshead (@goodnews)
Aug 25 2007 11:29:38am
  Tithing is a very important subject to all of us. I myself fell under the mainstream church teaching for years. I realize that there are many churches and ministries that are taking money from people under pressure and using it for the glory of their own buildings, clothes, possessions, etc. I believe they will answer to the Lord dearly for that also. I believe that that very thing was going on in Jesus' day in the temple also. They had a 'building fund' drive on at the time themselves. I believe God will not hold it against those who are under it's deception, as we see Jesus pointing out the poor widow and her gift, and how she is recognized by God personally. We also see Jesus giving the priesthood hell at another time, and telling the temple administration just what he thought of them when they were doing business in the temple (maybe like todays fund raisers for worthless projects instead of feeding the poor and helping others?) His words to them go like this to paraphrase: "generation of vipers", "Blind guides", "...better off thrown into the sea with weights around your necks", "Woe unto you, how is it going to be possible for you to enter the Kingdom of heaven" and so on. Not a pretty picture. I decided quite some time ago that I do NOT want to be classified in with them. I do believe that the tithe principal comes from God however. What I am talking about is His number. God has numbers he likes, for whatever reason. Ten percent, as it pertains to giving, is one of them. The New Testament is clear that we are to give according to our hearts, not under compulsion or obligation. For myself, I take it that I want to give ten percent, because God likes that number, and I want to please him in all my ways. I absolutely do NOT believe in the Law laid down by churches that you have to 'pay' your tithes in order for God to not curse your finances. That is abominable, and I see it as going into the realm of the priesthood of Jesus' time. goodnews

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 25 2007 01:43:09pm
  Speaking of the misuse of funds in church is a sad part of humanity. May the Lord Jesus help His Church. In the New Testament Gospel it is noted that the people were making merchandise in the Temple. The poor widow gave all she had. She did not give ten percent or did she? It was all she had, does not state if that was what was left over from her living, but it was all she had. She had given more then all that day, even if it seemed little to those around, but to Jesus it was a great gift. It was not a tithe, but an offering. If the priest at that time was corrupt, she did not look at their behavior, but gave as she could to the temple. The spirit she had was that of gratefulness and love for the things of God. A person with such a wonderful heart that Jesus recognized is a model we should follow and be like. If you chose to give ten percent of your income to the work of God, God bless you for helping His work. Ten percent may be a guideline for you or others, that is nice. But God's perfect number in giving is all your heart. To say it is God's perfect number may not be correct because in the book of Acts everyone was giving all that they had. That was God's perfect number in the early Church. Why did people give all, could it be that they were following the Spirit of God because God knew (knows) the events that was about to come the region. Let us not limit how much to give, but be prepared to give at all times. Yes there are many churches that state you will be cursed if you don't give your tithes. Most will use the book of Malachi to bring their point across. Let us see what the book of Malachi states. Malachi 3:8-9 (KJV) 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. This is the scripture that we preacher have used. But let us read in context. Malachi 1:1 (KJV) 1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. Let us read the scriptures in chronological order. Malachi1:6 (KJV) 6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, "(O priests)", that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? (A son honoureth his father), and a servant his master: if then I be a father, (where is mine honour?) and if I be a master, where is my fear? (saith the LORD of hosts unto you, "O priests",) that despise my name. And ye say, (Wherein have we despised thy name?) 7 (Ye) offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible. 8 And if (ye) offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if (ye) offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts. Notice that it was the priest that was rebuked here. They are the ones that were not giving God Honour. Verse 7. Ye offer polluted bread upon mine alter Verse 8. Offering blind etc... As we see it was the priest that were the ones in charge of the sacrifices that were done in the temple. 10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do (ye kindle fire) on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand. It was the priest that kindled fire. God would not receive the priest's offerings at their hand. Notice the ye in 12 and 13. It is still talking to the priest. The first chapter is talking to the corrupt priest. Then we start chapter 2. Malachi 2:1-2 (KJV) 1 And now, "O ye priests", this commandment is for you. 2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a "(curse upon you)", and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. The beginning of chapter two starts with a rebuke again to the priest. 7 For "the priest's lips" should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 "But (ye) are departed out of the way; (ye) have caused many to stumble at the law"; (ye) have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. The priest have caused many to depart from God's way, many in Israel stumble at God's law because of the priest. May God protect His church these days, that people don't stumble but will continue to follow Jesus Christ and not man. As you continue reading you see that the Lord wrote chapter 1 and 2 to the priest. Malachi 3:3 (KJV) 3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the "sons of Levi", and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. Chapter 3 the Lord continues to talk to the priest. The book was written to the priest so that they could repent. 7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But (ye) said, Wherein shall we return? 8 (Will a man rob God?) Yet (ye) have robbed me. (But ye say), Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 (Ye) are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, (even this whole nation.) Understanding the rebuke was first to the priest and also to the nation. It is amazing that we preachers have missed this in our teaching about tithing. The priest were the ones that offered the blind sick and hurt sacrifices on the altar. You might say the people were bringing the bad. But let us see what the law states about the tithe of animals. Leviticus 27:32-34 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, (the tenth) shall be holy unto the LORD. 33 He shall (not search) (whether it be good or bad), (neither shall he change it): and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed. 34 These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai. Notice it was the tenth that was the Lord's, no matter how it came out. The person could not change the bad for good or the good for bad. As they brought the tithe to the priest, it was the responsibility of the priest to give the best of the tithe to the Lord. But the priest was giving the blind and sick. That is way God was rebuking the priest. And some of these acts caused the people to stumble at the Law of God.

Nathan Lambshead (@goodnews)
Aug 26 2007 04:02:22am
  A couple more thoughts. We are called to give 100 percent in the New testament, yes, but this is not talking about our financial provision. We are called to pay our debts, and look after our families. Can't do that if we give it all away. Abraham gave a tithe of the spoils of war, and the rest he gave a way also. He kept none of it. We do not see him giving away his own provision however, and can only speculate that he may have. Speculation and assumption is the root of false teaching and cults. I have heard opinions on BOTH sides of the issue use the teaching of New Covenant giving for their own agendas. The church that preaches the 'law' of tithe and offerings, says ten percent is God's, and you should also give more, as we are called to give all. We say God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, but turn around and say we need to pay God His ten percent, as it is not ours. He already owns 100 percent however. How do these two facts compute? Those that teach we should not tithe as a law use it as well, saying give ALL, not just ten percent. I believe the 100 percent giving involves our will, not our provision. Jesus showed us in the garden when He prayed, "...never the less, not MY will but Yours be done" The will of man is the one thing God Himself holds precious enough that He will not touch it. He Himself will not over-ride it. It is our will that God does battle with, not our money. He already owns it all. It's the church (or many of them) that is concerned with our money. I have seen how God owns it all in my own life. I have been in times of plenty, and am right now in a time of extreme need. I recognize how God owns it all anyway, not me. I am but a steward of it. When I have excess (and I mean after getting my own spending in line with His will and not my own desires and urges) I give when and where He shows me, including ten percent to the church I attend, plus over and above as He directs. When I have nothing, I give ten percent of nothing. God's method works well. My concern is learning to be content and to trust the lord when I have nothing, and also learning to trust in God and not in my bank account when I have excess. I am learning how to worship Him in times of desperate need, (financially as well as health-wise), and worshipping Him when all is rosy. That is what I believe giving ALL is about. Dying to myself and giving up my will, my agenda, my own purpose, and becoming a true member of His Kingdom. Content to serve with what I have on hand, as it is His anyway. The church I attend is a good steward of it's offerings, and I know the people making the choices are the ones answering to what they do with the money given. Starting other churches, sending out missionaries to Mexico, Haiti, India, Africa, and the USA, as well as providing a place to come learn about Jesus, and a great Sunday school program. All this done with only an average of 65 people in attendance on a typical Sunday. It is a very giving church compared to some others, and the pastor does not hammer on tithing all of the time. He personally believes in tithing as it is traditionally taught, that I know, but I see him following the leading of the Spirit in a big way and he seldom addresses it. He is far more concerned with the heart of man, and the condition of man. I do not agree with everything this church spends money on either, and can decide what I will give towards, but I have learned to let go and let those who are in the position of responsibility answer to what they do with it. I know this church does a lot more than I can on my own. I give ten percent to the church because God led me in that. No preacher will give me a guilt reason to do that, as I know it is unscriptural. I have a grocery store gift certificate program that is my own, where I purchase small gift certificates when I can, and give them out when and where I see the need. I put them in envelopes with a tract and a contact card introducing myself and my reasons for giving to them. This giving comes out of excess, as God provides. This is my own program, not the churches. God led me, and I want to obey in that also. There is a definite heart-issue here, which does not seem to even come into play when arguing law. Funny thing about that. A lot more to say on this, but enough for now. goodnews

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 26 2007 08:58:51am
  God bless you, I could only feel your heartbeat and concur with you in what you wrote. There needs to be a following of the Spirit of God in all areas of life, which living in the flesh as we all know it is hard at times. I am glad that you follow God as He leads you. The early church was moved by the Spirit and gave all. I am not saying we need to give all our money to the church, what I am saying is we need to follow the Leading of the Holy Spirit in all areas of life. The first church (early church) gave all. God was working in their heart to do such. We need to see what God has for us to do in ministry in our lives. It was not the apostles that were telling the church to sell all they had and bring it them, it was what the people did according to what they felt to do in the Spirit of God. History shows that Titus of Roman and the Roman Empire destroyed the temple and Jerusalem. Year before many gave offerings by selling their properties to give to the apostles, for the work of the ministry. It was not the church in Corinthians or other church that sold all but the church that God moved to do so. Jesus Christ was still the Lord of their lives even if the church of Corinthians and the other church did not sell their properties to bring to the apostles. What needs to happen as you stated is a following of God's Spirit. You give the gift card to the needy, giving them also the reason for your giving, Jesus. That my friend and brother in Christ is two thumbs up. There is a scripture that comes to mind 2 Corinthians 9:6 (KJV) 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. The church you attend is doing good works. That is awesome, and God see all that we do for Him and we need to continue. I believe we all need to do good works in helping the poor and the local assembly as well as those far from us geographically. Having good stewardship is very important and would help us be able to help in the grace of giving. You had mentioned that Abraham gave a tithe of the spoils of war and the rest he gave away also. I understand that he gave a tithe of the spoils of war. He did have many more possessions for he was a wealthy man, but he did not give a tithe to Melchisedec of his own provisions. Many that teach tithing say that Melchisedec received of Abraham the tithes and so now we as children of Abraham need to give our tithes to the ministry of the Local assembly for they are the new priest. Speculation and assumption is the root of false teaching and cults. The authority of all teachings should be found in scripture without speculation or assumptions. This is true especially when we are talking about making a doctrine that could bring people into guilt and condemnation and a curse, for not keeping the law of the inheritance of the children of Levi. Numbers 18:22-26 (KJV) 22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die. 23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance. 24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. 25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe. There is no other account in scripture that Abraham gave more then the tithes of the spoils of the war to Melchisedec. I am not saying Abraham gave anything more. But some preachers that preach tithe make it sound as if Abraham gave all that he had to Melchisedec. We need to follow Jesus Christ as He leads us with His Spirit. God bless you and keep you in His grace.

Nathan Lambshead (@goodnews)
Aug 26 2007 10:13:07am
  I am finding your study interesting, and want to keep the dialog going a bit if you do not mind. You misunderstood what I was saying myself about Abraham. I was actually agreeing with you. I see him giving from the spoils of war, both Tithe to the priest, and the rest he gave away also, keeping none for himself. He was a wealthy man, and had no need to keep any for himself. I do not see him giving of his regular provision though, (farming, business, trading, etc) but the church somehow has turned that into "give ten percent of your paycheck" teaching. I agree that I do not see that in the scripture, as you pointed out. The word tithe is used enough in the scripture, denoting ten percent, that I do believe it is of significance, in as much as it is a figure. I do not believe in chance, especially in the Word. That is the reason I chose personally to give ten percent of my provision. I also give at least 7 percent of my time. Thursday night for worship team practice (I play guitar and sing, and sometimes lead the service) and I never miss a Sunday. I have come to realize that some people coming and going in our service over the years have looked at me as an example of a dedicated life (I am glad they do not see everything God himself does) and I do take it seriously, representing the Lord in consistency and dedication. They are also blessed by my playing and singing, which God gave me a large portion of talent for. I give that back to Him in the small ways I can. Now my question to you is this: how do you address the issue of the church being a non-profit organization (most of them) and that they cannot just buy land and meeting places by laying out cash in todays economy. Home groups are great, and I think may be more important than the larger meeting houses, but BOTH are God's church, as imperfect as they may be, and home groups cannot be the only recourse to take. If People are not committed to a steady giving, not matter which way they base it, ten percent, or whatever, it would be impossible to build anything larger to accommodate more, and in some instances explosions of revival as the Spirit is poured out in an area. Are church buildings and their necessary expenses completely unscriptural and we should go back to living-room meetings only? I am asking this in a humble and genuine way, not in disagreement or anything. It is a real question I have on my heart and want to hear more about what you and others think. goodnews

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 26 2007 09:54:50pm
  Dedicating our lives to God and having Jesus become Lord is of up-most importance. I have talked to some preachers on this subject and they ask a similar question, "How are the bills going to be paid." Meeting places are great whether homes or larger buildings to congregate many people. Those buildings whether bought or rented should be paid by the offerings of the people. Having faith that God can and will move upon the hearts of people to support local ministry. Church will be imperfect because of imperfect man. If God moves upon individual to leave sin and the works of sin, He can also move upon individual to support local ministries and help the poor. Some teachers of tithes tell the people to live by faith and give their tithes and watch God take care of them. Could we preachers live by faith and watch God move upon people to change their lives and begin to care for the spreading of the Gospel? People can learn good stewardship and put aside as they receive of the Lord for the Gospel. But as we know teaching tithing as mandatory in the church is unscriptural. So each individual needs to give as they have purposed in the heart to give. 2 Corinthians 9:7-8 (KJV) 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: I was told by a sister in the Lord, "If tithes are not collected people will just give their $1's in the offering plate." I would agree with her to a point. Because with the teaching of tithing, offerings has been noted to be an extra gift you give to God. So many don't understand what a financial offering truly is. It is a gift of grace given by an individual with a heart of thanks giving. We need to be thankful and follow God and how the scripture teaches us to give in the New Testament church.

Samantha Shemer (@youaregolden)
Aug 27 2007 04:40:56am
  I believe that tithing is a thing of your heart. I am convicted of what I need to give my the Spirit. Usually it ends up wiht all the cash left in my wallet by the time we get to church. It is an offering to God and a waay to show worship. It doesn't matter where the money goes just as long as in your heart you are giving it to the Lord. -Golden

Andrea Lynn (@allforhim)
Aug 27 2007 05:21:10am
  I am amazed at the oneness of heart I feel with y'all in regards to tithing. The Lord brought me to look at tithing earlier this year and as I studied the Word, I found it contradictory to what many churches teach much to my dismay. I was stunned because even my current church has made it "mandatory" if you are a member to tithe and in parantheses in the membership manual it says (10% of your income). Many churches falsely use scripture to make it a mandatory thing and I feel in a sense to "bully" members into tithing. Now if a family is scraping by just to put food on the table and barely making it or even not, I feel as the church we are to be there to HELP them not to demand a tithe of an already insufficient income. In the New Testament those who had gave to those who were in need. And in the Old Testament the tithe was given to those in need. But the church has demanded the tithe from all, whether in need or in plenty and have used Malachi 3:10 to say even if you are in need, if you give, God will provide. I do not feel that is the heart of the Gospel, we are not to say to them in need, to be warm and be fed and not do a thing to help! I am afraid I must bring up one of my role models in the faith, George Mueller. He was disgusted at the way the church collected money and he did not want to get paid but wanted to wholly rely on God for His provision. In his day there were pew rents, so the wealthy got the best pews, he got rid of that, rid of the offering plate and put boxes in the rear of the church so people would give out of their hearts not out of propulsion. We need to see more churches fully relying on God for their provision, I believe that if God grows a church He will also provide a means for "housing" that church, whether it be a building or people's homes. We so often race ahead of God and not trust Him fully when it comes to our provision and this year has been monumental for me to see how God provides. He has come through in BIG ways and my faith has only been strengthened more! I confess right now we are not tithing (GASP!) but we have been convicted by the Lord to pay off our debt, from when we were walking disobediently to the Lord. This has helped to drive home to me how wrong we were for if we had been obedient we would have so much more to give to the Kingdom of God! Now we give ALL we can, to the ministry, to the needy and even to our church when we can. We have also been convicted that we give cash, that we do not receive glory for it, nor a tax deduction, but we give solely from Christ in our hearts. We truly strive to walk obediently with God and I know once we are set free from the bondage of debt we will give even more, more then 10% but ALL we possibly can to further His kingdom and to put our faith into action. The Old Testament was about the Law, it was before Christ but even with the law in place, one could not obey every jot and tittle and as we see in Malachi even the Priests were giving God their least just so they would obey the law. But the New Testament is all about the heart and when we give from our heart there are no boundaries, we give as the Holy Spirit leads us, and He will lead us to give so that we further God's Kingdoms and not do it for the rewards of men. I hope I made sense, I wrote my own blog in a blog LOL. Blessings!

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 27 2007 10:27:13am
  My sister in Christ Jesus, that is great that you are following the leading of the Holy Ghost to get out of debt and in obedience with the Lord in the same. Yes many churches or better said men have used the Word of God incorrectly (for lack of better word). It also happened during Jesus earthly ministry. Luke 16:10-15 (KJV) 10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. 11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Jesus here is teaching a very important subject. He starts up the subject with the faithful in the least would also be faithful in the much. When someone could be faithful in small things that person will be faithful in big things. Then Jesus starts talking about not faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will trust true riches to such a person? What a start to a teaching. Mammon is treasures or riches of this world, one that is unrighteous with mammon, how could they be trusted with true riches (we will get back to true riches soon). He goes on to say if you have not been faithful with that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own. God wants to do something in the lives of people, He wants to give true riches, but we need to understand how to receive those true riches and how they apply to our lives. He goes on and states no man can serve two masters. No one can properly serve God and mammon. We need to be servants of God and have mammon serve us not us mammon. Look at verse 14, the ones that made fun of Jesus and His teachings were the Pharisees, which is stated were covetous. The Pharisees were one of the religious Sect of the time. They were the teachers of the Law and looked highly by men. But Jesus saw past there outward appearance and seen the condition of their hearts. And Jesus tells them, you justify yourselves before man. They made themselves look good in the sight of man and were justified in the manner that they lived in the sight of man, but Jesus saw past the hypocrisy. They were living as the very wealthy in their communities and were using their position to profit themselves. Jesus saw past their covetous practice. They were serving mammon as they were pronouncing the Word of God. Jesus rebukes them for the condition of their heart and tells them that which men esteemed highly was an abomination in the sight of God. God wants to give us true riches (revelations of His Word), but we need to serve Him not mammon. He would like for us to buy the plot of land where the treasure is hidden (the Gospel), but we need to render all to Christ. His Word is so full of true riches that will bring us to a communion with Him and true fellowship. I myself need to let go and let God in my life. I appreciate you seeing the will of the Father in your life; it is great encouragement to hear what is happening with you. We don't need rich preachers, what we need is preachers rich in revelations of His Word.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 27 2007 04:38:48pm
  When teaching a doctrine or even believing-following a doctrine, the true authority must be the Word of God. We can't take our thoughts or feelings or past experiences or even what historical church fathers have said to make doctrines; other wise how many different teaching (dogma-man made doctrines) would there be in the Church of the living God. Doctrines based on mans philosophy would only take us away from true divine teachings. I will take some other misapplied scripture that I have taught or heard it taught in the past. Yes, I was a tithe "collector and giver" in the past. God: thank you for delivering me and helping me deliver some of your people from my past errors and errors of dogmas. Tithes are mentioned 3 times in the Gospels Matt, Mark, Luke and John. Matthew 23:23 (KJV) 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Jesus calls the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites. They loved to be seen by man in the things of God. We as preachers say that Jesus confirmed the principle of tithing in this scripture. He said these, speaking of tithe should not be left undone. Understanding the application of good interpretation, one needs to know who Jesus is talking to when and why. We may have heard this spoken and I have in the congregation, pay tithes because Jesus confirmed it saying these should not be left undone. Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and scribes, teachers of the Law. He was rebuking the Pharisees for their adherence to the law of tithing only, and not keeping the more important parts of the law like judgment, mercy and faith. Notice they paid tithes on the smallest herbs and thought they were righteous before a righteous God. When Jesus spoke to the Pharisees it was still the Old Testament. The New Testament did not truly start until Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected to bring in the New Covenant. Prior to His death, they were still under the old law and needed to continue until the ordinance of the law was nailed to the cross. Luke 11:42 (KJV) 42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Luke 18:11-14 (KJV) 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. These are the only scriptures in the New Testament that mentions tithes, other then in the book of Hebrews. There is no justification for a preacher like me to start collecting tithes to help my ministry or even the Church of the Living God. We can't make doctrines so we as preachers don't have to trust in God. God will move upon people to help the minister in the needs of his family and the Church. As we continue to see, their will be overwhelming evidence in the scriptures to base a good foundation for a good teaching on giving and not grabbing scriptures, trying to justify the collection by a way that is not scripturally sound.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 28 2007 11:14:41am
  Tithing was always done of the edible produce never in money. Some people have stated that there was no money during those days and that is why it was done in edible produces. Deuteronomy 14:22-26 (KJV) 22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. 23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. 24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: 25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, If the place was too far for the person bring the tithe, he would convert the tithe into money, take the money and when he got to the place, he would convert the money back into tithe. There was money in those days. Today tithing is taught to be done by money and not as commanded in the Old Covenant. Taking the commandment of the children of Israel to give tithe to the Levites and changing the commandment so tithes can be given in money form and now given to us the preachers as a salary, and if not followed this way one would be robbing God! We can not change the commandment to fit our desired intent; this is not good biblical teaching. When we take and say you are cursed if you don't tithe, we bring people under the curse of the old covenant law. We can not pick and choose what old covenant parts of a law we bring to the New Testament. We as preachers say tithe was done before the Law (Moses) and that is the reason why we tithe in the New Testament because Abraham gave a Tithe before the Law. This argument sounds good, but it is flawed. Though it has been said many time over the pulpits of American churches. Tithing was done as we stated earlier by Abram when giving to Melchizedek a tithe of the spoils of war. Abraham did give tithes 400 years before the Law. There are some Laws that were before the Law of Moses. Circumcision was before the Law, it was a covenant between God and Abraham. Genesis 17:9-10 (KJV) 9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. This is the covenant of Abraham. I have heard it said that the Abrahamic covenant was tithe, but I don't find that in scripture. Circumcision was before the Law, given to our father of faith Abraham, but we do not follow the letter of that law. The Sabbath was given in the 7 day of Creation. That is many years before the Law of Moses. We pick and choose the Laws we want to hold to and the other Laws put aside, this ought not be so. Galatians 4:9 (KJV) 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Galatians 5:1-4 (KJV) 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Someone told me, I could not get rid of the Law. This is correct because the Law is pure holy and perfect. There are Laws that are moral Laws and there are ceremonial Laws. Moral Laws must be followed. For example: Leviticus 18:23 (KJV) 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. This is a moral Law, it still hold strong today. But don't confuse moral Law with ceremonial. A Christian is not cursed and can not be curse and should never curse others, because Jesus became a curse for us and nailed the Law of Old Covenant to the Cross. We are under the grace of Jesus Christ not under the Law of Old. I will write scripture soon about giving in grace of Jesus Christ, the ministry and how it receives in the New Testament, the poor, love of money and other things that pertain to giving. It will be a blessing and an encouragement to us all. I know that this may be new to some and some things you may never have heard before, and some have felt it deep in their hearts but may not have known how to search it out in scripture, while other have seen it before. But the beauty is we are learning the Word of God on a better and correct way of giving that will free people from Old Covenant curses and bring us to a New Covenant way of love paid by the blood of Our Savior Jesus Christ, To Him be Glory and Honor forever and ever Amen. Please Blog it is fun.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 28 2007 07:00:48pm
  Since I am new at blog(ing) could anyone give me feed back if this is what blog is about. When you brothers and sisters in Christ read this are we to converse our ideas and feeling on paper (blog's). And by so doing having topics like this grow into a study journal. I know that this topic is not a salvation topic. It is an important topic because so many have not understood the teachings on giving and created a doctrine of tithes and made it a salvation issue, because any man that is robbing God or his neighbor can not make it to heaven.

Rob Henson (@greybear)
Aug 29 2007 05:04:33am
  By the site's definition of blogging Section: Blogging Verses Discussion Forums c.f.: Specifically the section that states, "it is our belief that a 'Blog Entry' is best defined as a researched topic that contains commentary combined together with text, images, links, and other related media, to form a multi-paragraphed chronological publication of comments and thoughts by the author". Additionally, "The primary purpose of a Discussion Forum (but not a blog) is to initiate a discussion about a given topic, through a one-line question or a multi-paragraphed introduction on a given topic. Unlike a Discussion Forum Thread/Topic, a Blog Entry is intended to be a researched commentary formed into a multi-paragraphed chronological publication of comments and thoughts by the author." How do you think you match up at this point? In Christ, GreyBear

Joshua Jones (@joshuajones)
Aug 29 2007 06:46:51am
  There are many so-called ministries that beg for and demand money from their flock at every occasion. In my humble opinion, based on my own study of the Word and dealings with church leadership, I think tithing is two things: 1 - Should be given when there is an actual increase (like in a business, after all the expenses are met, there is a profit). 2 - It is personal and frankly between the individual and the Father (it is not a public matter, nor is there any fruit in such public display). There are many scriptures that can support multiple beliefs, which is based upon one's perception. I personally tithe only where I'm fed the Father's Word, and that is only of my net income after the needs of my family are met. I know I take a risk by putting that all down, but by the looks of bear's post, it won't be here long. lol

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 29 2007 11:00:08am
  Ministers of the gospel have a right to partake of the gospel. Jesus ordained that a minister of the gospel should partake of the Gospel. Some would go to say that a minister has no right to partake of the gospel; this type of teaching is not biblical. Ministers have a right to partake of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Matthew 10:10 (KJV) 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 1 Corinthians 9:14 (KJV) 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. As we study these scripture we will be writing notes and commentaries to clarify what is been said. We will comment on 1 Timothy chapter 5:17-18 Timothy was a young man that was like a son to Apostle Paul. Paul writes to Timothy and tells him an elder can and should be rewarded by the gospel. He brings up the law of the Ox not to be muzzled. Another reference to the Ox is given in 1 Corinthians 9:9-11 (KJV) 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? As we see here this Law was written in the Old Covenant. Understanding this verse will help us see how to apply scripture. This Law was written and adherence to it was necessary (for those under the Law). The Jewish people under the Law needed to follow this law as well as all other laws written in the book of the law. They would plow in the field and the ox they used could not be muzzled. The ox was able to eat as it worked. The ox was the laborer of the field. If the ox was muzzled that person would be guilty of breaking the law. If you have a field now in 2007 and are treading out the corn on your field, using an ox, and you muzzled the ox would you be guilty of breaking the law? The answer is no. This is a law written for those in the Old Covenant. But now there is an application in the New Testament. The minister is the ox (as if it were) he has a right to eat from the ministry. The minister is receiving substance as he works in the ministry. So the Law of the muzzle on an ox was given so that ministers in the New Testament can receive.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 29 2007 04:42:28pm
  Ministries can partake of the gospel. This is not to bring up the Old Testament law of tithing and establish it like a New Testament doctrine to take care of our ministries. We should be using the scripture to edify the people and not to make merchandise of it. Peter 2:1-3 (KJV) 1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. This is a sad part of what is going on in the church (not all). False teachers making merchandise of the people of God! I will not say who these people are but the scripture does say that false prophets will be among the people. It is through covetousness, shall they with faltering words make gain of the people. This is one thing that we preachers need to correct. Not that we are partaking of this despicable covetous acts but we need to set an example of using the Word of God correctly. As Paul writes to Timothy and lets him know that a minister can partake of the ministry, he continues to tell Timothy some important things. What he writes I ponder on, as I read and look at the condition of the church today. 1 Timothy 6:5-6 (KJV) 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. He tells this young Evangelist (more later on what is an Evangelist), that some supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw. We need to be content with what we have. The warning to this young man comes from none other but the apostle Paul moved by the Holy Ghost. 1 Timothy 6:7-11 (KJV) 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. He tells Timothy, we came naked into this world and we are going to leave naked. Timothy with food and clothing let us be content. With in the same context of the scripture we see Paul continue to write. And in verse 9 says they that will be rich will fall in much pain and will drown in destruction and perdition. Money, serving it, can take one to a depth so deep that will destroy them. We have heard the scripture the love of money is the root of all evil so many times. But this is the place in the scriptures it is found. It is in the letter to Timothy a young evangelist. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. He tell Timothy the LOVE of money (not money) is the root of all evil. We as preachers love to preach and see people live for Jesus Christ. There is nothing better then to see someone get the revelation of what Jesus did on the cross for them, as they seek to love the Savior. Ministers today use the scripture to warn people about the love of money, but we too have to take the warning more to heart then the people. The devil wants to destroy the preachers today, anyway he can, money is a great bait. The love of money can cause people (yes ministers) to stumble and leave the true path of faith to pierce ourselves with many sorrows. He tells Timothy, But thou, O man of God, escape saftly from these things. This will be a fight but we can overcome, if we have partook in covetousness we need to repent. I have made mistakes so many times, but it is amazing how the grace of God helps in times of need. When sin has accured and repentance comes; o what a great feeling to be forgiven. I know if we pray, God will help us leave and escape safely from this trap.

Nathan Lambshead (@goodnews)
Aug 30 2007 05:40:35am
  Thanks for the reminder nazrico. I find I may learn something, but it does not take long before I have to remind myself of it. When my family is suffering because of money (or lack therof) it starts to take on a new meaning for me. Not for stuff I want, but for the desire to provide a safe haven and sustenance for my wife and son. I still need to remind myself none the less. sincerely, Nathan

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 30 2007 08:40:35am
  Goodnews: God bless you and keep you in His grace. I had read your blog in another blog but it disappeared. I was hoping to get to write to it more. I hope you can write something here to keep a blog about it. It is awesome to see that God is revealing things to you. In a time of devotion unto the Lord your blog reminded me of this scripture. Mark 7:8-13 (KJV) 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. The religious leaders of that time were teaching contrary to what the Spirit was trying to teach. They were teaching not to honor thy father and mother, because to the leaders it was more important to them to give a gift to the temple then to help your own family in times of need. Notice, Jesus calls there teachings commandments of men. They tell the people it was ok to tell your mom and dad; I know this would have helped you and profited you but instead of given it to you it is Corban; that is to say a gift. It was the teachers of the law in verse 12 that were causing the people not to help there own families. We could say today it is happening again with the religious leaders of some local assembly. ALLFORHIM (I think Andrea) wrote something similar. They say give to the church and watch God take care of your needs. But the better way to say it is; help those in need, and watch God use His Church. The church is there also to help the people in need. The church is not the building but we are the church. More on this later Samuel

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 30 2007 10:21:59pm
  Before we get to giving by the saints of God, I would like to write more about a minister partaking of the Gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:1-9 (KJV) 1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? 2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord. Apostle Paul is trying to state a known fact, the church in Corinth was won to the Gospel by Paul. Paul tell them that if anyone is an Apostle to them in Corith it is Paul. He wants the church to understand, if he is called an apostle it is because of them that are in Corith. The church is as a sign of his apostleship. 3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, There were some that were questioning Paul's apostleship (God called him to be an apostle). So he states his defense to them that question his apostleship. 4 Have we not power to eat and to drink? 5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? 6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? He brings up other apostle and compares their life with his. The other apostles were married and did not work and a question comes up if only Paul and Barnabas do not have the right not work. I have heard it said the reason others did not believe Paul was an apostle is because he worked. But that is not what the scripture is stating. It is asking if we (Paul and Barnabas) are the only ones that can not forbear working. Who ever these men were, Paul is about to debate with them by this letter. 7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? 8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? Apostle Paul tells the reader something very simple to understand. He is making an allegory to men of God called to preach the Gospel, they can eat of the Gospel. He is not talking like a man (carnal) as wanting something to covet. He refers to the law written in the old covenant. 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? This is the same reference located in 1 Timothy we stated in a prior blog. Until tomorrow God bless you. Samuel Nazario

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Aug 31 2007 09:12:41am
  1 Corinthians 9:10-15 (KJV) 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. Paul makes reference to the ox that treadeth out the corn. This law was written, for those of the New Testament, they that work in the gospel. But notice, it not saying we keep the letter of that law, but we keep the teaching. What I am saying is this: ministers are not eating corn, but their eating of the field of their labor, at the same time the ox did not have a cart behind it to collect the corn for itself. Some ox of today have the cart behind them mounting up riches for themselves. Be partakers not anything but. 11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? 12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Here we see that others where taking this privilege of being a minister and partaking of the labor. Paul says if anyone has a right to partake it is I. This is said because he was the apostle to the church of Corinth. But Paul being the man he was states something that few would take: I have not used this privilege that I have in partaking of the gospel. Yes, he had a right, but he chose not to partake of the Corinth church. Other churches helped Paul, but in Corinth he new it would hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. In the old covenant they (Levites) that ministered ate of the things of the temple. This is not to say that tithing needs to come to the church so we the ministers can eat of those things. He is trying to let the church of Corinth know that in the ministering of the things of God, it is ok and a right (privilege) for those that work in the gospel to partake of the Gospel. Even Jesus Christ said a workman is worth of his reward. But the sad part of this is many have taken these scriptures and made the people of God in the New Testament church think that tithing is now part of the church and that it belongs to the preachers and that offerings is for everything else. I am shocked at the misquotes that many state in their teachings to benefit from it. 15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. Paul states that he did not use the privilege in the church of Corinth, nor did he write this letter so that people in Corinth would give to his minister. He did have a right to partake of the gospel but he chose not to partake. I have heard some preachers say, yes, Paul chose not too but I choose to partake. Yes you can choose to partake but let us partake as servants of the Lord and not as Lords of God heritage. Paul would rather die then someone take this glorying away from him, he was so happy to preach the gospel freely.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Sep 01 2007 07:50:39am
  Apostle Paul was a man that was very careful when using his right to partake of the gospel. He did have a right, but preferred not to in Corinth so that the gospel be not hindered. He wanted to see the furtherance of the gospel, become all things to all men so to win some. Within the same context of this letter (chapter), Paul state in 1 Corinthians 9:25-27 (KJV) 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. In life we need to be temperate in all thing because we need to obtain the crown. Paul keeps his body under, keeps it in subjection. If not, he state, while preaching unto other he himself will be a castaway. Within the same chapter he writes the above, while talking about a right to partake of the Gospel, he elects not to partake and preach the gospel freely. The awareness, the carefulness, the understanding, that he had to warn Timothy also: The love of money is the root of all kinds of evils. It is sad that we here in 2007 prefer to receive some of Pauls teaching and not all (pick and chose generation). If we could repent and put our lives in check, how much more could Jesus do with our lives. Yes we (I) have made mistakes, sins and shame; but let us repent and get things in the right track.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Sep 01 2007 08:56:19am
  Philippians 4:9-14 (KJV) 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. 10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. The church of Philippians has come again to Paul's help, their care for him has been shown again. The church there always has wanted to give to Paul but has not had the opportunity to give to him. Paul was very appreciative to the church for their care for him. It is important for the saints of God to help the ministry. It is a service that is pleasing in the sight of God. Paul as an apostle learned to live a life of contentment. 2 Corinthians 11:7-14 (KJV) 7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service. Apostle Paul writes to the church of Corinth and asked a question, did I do something wrong for preaching to you freely, and other churches were helping me when I preached to you O Corinth? He states he that he robbed other churches to do them (Corinth) service. It was the responsibility of Corinth to give to Paul. 9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself. The Church of Macedonia helped Paul while he was ministering to the Corinth's. Paul was in want at times while in Corinth but would not ask the Corinth's to help him. He did not want to be a burden to them, but wanted them to receive the gospel. Many will say here that Paul made a mistake by not taking from the Corinth in the first letter and he is correcting his mistake of not partaking of the gospel. But as we continue reading we discover something different. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. He was so happy to preach the gospel freely to Corinth. The heart of the aposple is shown as a man that loves the Corinthians. 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Here we see that he wanted to cut off the occasion (Greek word: aphorme the incentive) from those people that were taking from the church of Corinth. So if they try to glory let them be found like Paul. Paul was not in it for money, he was in it because of a call of God. But these that were in Corinth were false apostles, deceitful workers, having changed in appearance as workers of God but in truth worker of darkness. Wow, these are some strong word that Paul is using describing these other workers of the gospel'. The next few verse Paul speak like a man (carnal) as to show if he were something, to make a point. The next chapter he tell the Corinth we he talked like a foolish man. 2 Corinthians 12:11-19 (KJV) 11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. 13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong. Paul made himself a fool because the Corinthians though that these other man were great because they would boast. So Paul let them know it is not God to boast to make merchandise of the people. He tells them that they lack from other churches in that they did not help him in his needs. And he asked the church to forgive him. 14 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. 15 And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved. 16 But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile. 17 Did I make a gain of you by any of them whom I sent unto you? Look what he states. The parents ought to lay up for the children not the children for the parents. I want and am happy to be spent and spend for you. My desire is to give not take. Paul was an the same time letting the Corinth's know he was not after their money but after their heart, while other may have been after their money. 18 I desired Titus, and with him I sent a brother. Did Titus make a gain of you? walked we not in the same spirit? walked we not in the same steps? 19 Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. It is amazing that Paul behaved himself as a servant of Jesus Christ. This was not talking about tithing, it is talking about offerings, gifts that people would give. It is amazing that in 2007 we have changed these scriptures to mean something else. We need to stay within the boundaries of scripture and not assumptions and speculations. Titus is sent to Corinth and did not make a gain of the people, they walked in the same spirit. He was not excusing himself to the people but he wanted them to be edified.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Sep 12 2007 09:06:47am
  We will look at other scriptures in context and see how they should be applied in our Christian walk. Luke 6:38 (KJV) 38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. So many times have we heard and said this in the pulpits of the church, when we speak of tithing and money. But looking at this scripture in context, it is not talking about money and its definately not talking about tithing, though that is what some preacher made it to be. It is talking about mercy, love, kindness, generosity, goodness (the good works of a Christian). But we have made it a give to the church money, or to the preacher. We as Christians need to live the above scriptures and see the glory of God shine in our lives and in the lives of people we minister to. Scriptures like this need to be taught in local assemblies, not about money, but about what it is truly talking about. Start giving in good measure and you will see people giving back to you mercy, love, kindness, generosity, goodness (the good works of a Christian).

Jeff Ostema (@thereisnogray)
Nov 02 2007 08:52:13am
  At your core, you need to believe that every material thing you have comes from God. Part of honoring God means managing your financial and material blessings in such a way that you are responsible with them, and for them. You should avoid debt, and prayerfully consider purchases. Responsible management means that you are always mindful of His blessing and you are prepared to give back what belongs to Him. (remember... He gave it to you?) .If you approach your material blessings this way, you will easily become a "cheerful giver." The topic of money and material blessings is difficult for many people. Some see the church as a bunch of money grabbing thieves. Others have referred to giving to the church as a form of extortion. In fact, God established the principle of financial giving as a part of effectively managing material wealth.. Rather than get hung up on the 10% figure, I encourage you to prayerfully consider what God would have you give. 2 Corinthians 9:7 says: "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." For some of you this cheerful giving may be 10% of what you earn. For others, it may be much more or less. To a certain extent, your giving must be sacrificial. To be in a position to give, you may be called upon to give up certain behaviors. Proverbs 3:9 states: "Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops." Take this verse to mean that God doesn't want the last few bucks you have in your pocket on Sunday morning. Good stewardship allows you to give to those who have less than you. More importantly, good stewardship allows God to bless you. His blessing may not be in the form of material wealth, but it will come nonetheless

Josefina Mendez (@corinthian14)
Nov 05 2007 04:26:08pm
  When we tithe, God does not say, "Thank you, my child!" Rather, He says, "So you are not a thief!" God does not need our money. What we need to understand is the fact that we do not own anything that we have; we are merely stewards of all we possess, tangible or intangible. God delights in His children who obeys willfully and cheerfully.

Samuel nazario (@nazrico)
Nov 16 2007 09:04:43am
  It has been about two months since my last entry. I see others have entered their ideas and feelings, this is good. I would like to continue with the subject. I do see in scripture the importance of good financial stewardship, this is being accountable and responsible. Many of the scriptures have been misunderstood by some, when talking about money or even tithes. For example: if you don't tithe God calls you a thief. The Jews that were under the law, if they did not tithe were stealing from God, this is true. Can we take a commandment to the Jews and apply it to the church? This is where error starts and continues in our walk with the Lord. Let us lay aside the manner in which many have misused the scriptures. Blog posted on Posted: 08/25/07 1:43pm talks in detail about the thieves that were robbing God. One of the things that the apostles told Paul to do is to remember the poor brothers. And this Paul did with all his heart. As we will see that some of the scriptures that are misused, are talking about the ministering to the saints. This ministry to the saints was important to the Apostle Paul and the other apostles. I have heard it said that tithing was taught by the apostles of the first generation. As I study the scriptures, I don't see what others are trying to persuade people to believe. One scripture some use is, the first day of the week, lay by him in store... 1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. They take this scripture and state that this is tithing in the first church. But using the scripture correctly we see this is not tithe. But it is an offering given to the ministry to the saints. It was a desire of the church to give this offering to the needy people in the churches. The verse prior states that this is a collection for the saints. It does not state a collection from the saints, but this in fact was a collection for the poor. It is amazing that many have forgotten about the poor. 1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. The scripture as we see is talking about this collection, to put it aside week by week so when Paul would come to Corinthian, he would not have to ask for a collection to be given, because the gift would already be there to take to Jerusalem. Let us use the above scriptures correctly and teach people to give with a cheerful heart.

Michael Scarim (@mikejs)
Mar 26 2008 06:58:37am
  There is a lot of talk about tithing. My input is short, sweet, from the Word of God, and a good guide line to go by. Tithing is 10 percent of your increase, even before uncle sam gets his. Some people say that their tax return has already been tithed. It is still an increase. Offering is anything given to God above your tithe. Tithing is obeying God. Offering is loving God. Mike.

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