ChristianBlog.Com About Membership Signin Join Today
If the word of God is not our standard for the truth, than what is?
Kirk M+ published this sponsored blog
God answering a prayer not kingdom will - imapcts many around us
Les B+ published this sponsored blog

Author:   
Where does the Bible say man has a free will? It doesn't.
rickroehm





 
Where does the doctrine of Free Will come from? I have never found one single verse in the Bible that states man has a Free Will. If Free Will is not taught in the Bible where did this doctrine come from? Is it based on man's opinion rather than the opinion of God?

Does not the Bible teach that the will of man is "controlled" by a sinful nature? Does not the Bible say we are "servants" to sin? Simply meaning (without Christ) we are slaves to an inherited sinful nature. There's nothing free about the fact we are controlled by a propensity to sin. The human will is controlled by sin. Period. A sinful man cannot not just simply choose to do right and God therefore will consider him right. A sinful man will choose wrongdoing in the simple rejection of Christ. Rejection alone causes man to miss God. If man missed God and missed redemption of the human soul is not his will, choices, and decisions based on self righteousness?

If you look at man and compare him to what the Bible says he really is, you will find that man cannot make "rightous choices" and be right in the eyes of God...without having righteousness by Grace in his heart. Read Romans 3:10-20 which is the greatest indictment against fallen man in the Bible. None that doeth good.. none righteous, no not one! David stated that a human being was conceived in sin. David also said that a baby goes astray from the womb...speaking lies. A child doesn't necessarily tell lies because he or she heard them from it's parents; a child tells lies because in their nature and make-up they are compelled to lie. Moses said in Genesis that the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Children without Christ that grow up making choices...make choices without Christ. Children that find Christ in their hearts will make Christlike choices.

The Bible teaches the ways of man are right in his own eyes...but the ways of man are not necessarily right in the eyes of God. What gives an unsaved man the right to think his decisions or choices are godly. This is where people miss it. People think they can choose right; decide right: do acts of right (in their own eyes) or good deeds and God will bless them for it. The problem with this is that people leave out Christ and His Saving Grace. They miss God-given righteousness. They miss Salvation of the human soul. They are sevants of unrighteousness. Rom 6:13...Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness

Human choices (within an unsaved man) are not and cannot be Godly choices that look for favor from God. Man cannot choose to do right and claim its right without God given righteosness that comes from the new birth. What I'm saying is, "The will of man is tainted and polluted with sin and is not free to choose and decide righteousness". Therefore the choices and decisions of man are likewise tainted and polluted with sin. The mind is darkened by the unclean heart. This is based on Bible doctrine not the opinions of men or tradition.

The Bible teaches there is no freedom to choose right unless its choosing Christ as Saviour and Redeemer. Does not the Holy Spirit melt fallen man just enough to break the will of man from a self righteous position? Get out of the way (you self centered man) as you may be your own worst enemy! Human choices will get you into self sufficiency and cause you to miss the sufficiency of God. Godly choices will get you to the power of God's saving Grace. Do you believe God can break the human will? Yes. The human will has to be broken to get fallen man to Christ. The will has to be "broken" by God to recieve right. Your choices and decisions without Christ, what did they get you from God? Nothing.

Before Christ...Did you find favor with God because you chose to quit committing adultery? Did you find favor with God because you chose to quit drinking alcohol, or lying, stealing, or cheating? Perhaps you could could turn your will from wrong to right on your own accord? Perhaps it was 50-50. Not so my brethren. Granted, Adam had the power to chose right or wrong (at creation)...but since then man has been born with a fallen nature. Cursed from the fall of Adam. Born a sinner. Without hope. Helpless without Christ. The mind, will, and body...controlled by sin...not free to chose or do right. The human will is not by any means free, but controlled or "under" sin. God's Word will confirm this truth in Romans 3:10...all are under sin. Under the control of sin...

Aren't you glad Christ can break the will of man enough to cause him to turn from sin and disobedience...or repent. I am! Glory! Christ changes things! He leads men to repentance. He changes the heart and soul which govern the way a man chooses and decides. His power and presence causes us to make right choices not wrong choices. The will of a Christian is in harmony with the will of God! God's Grace sways the way a man chooses and decides. Godly choices. Godly decisions. Why? Sin doesn't live here anymore. I'm free after Christ frees me. Iv'e been redeemed! Glory! Excuse me for getting blessed!

Here's some Biblical evidence about how man's will is controlled by sin and not "free" as many people say and think.

Genesis 3: 15...The fall...in the garden of the Eden (The original sin)
Genesis 6: 5...the imagination of the thoughts of his heart was evil continually,
Genesis 8: 21...the imagination man's heart was evil from his youth.
Psalms 51: 5...in sin my mother conceived me, (born in sin)
Psalms 58: 3...the wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born speaking lies.
Jeremiah 17: 9...heart is deceitful
Ecclesiastes 9: 3..the heart of the sons of men is full of evil.
Isaiah 55:8...For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord.
John 7:7...the world hates me because I testified to it that its works are evil.
John 3:19...and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3: 20...for everyone that does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, for fear that his deeds should be exposed.
Romans 5: 19...for by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made the sinners.
Romans 5: 21...sin reigned in death, (the sinful nature)
Romans 7: 5...when we were in sin
Romans 7: 9, 10...I was alive once without the law but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Ephesians 2:3...we had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind: and were by nature to children of wrath.

Examine this closely and be blessed by the truth of God's Word and not tradition or human opinion! It will take you to Christ and get you away from debates.

Published:


Blog Sharing:           http://christianblog.com/0d79

Matt Kendall(@mattk)

  Hi Rick, Afraid I am going to have to disagree with you! Does the bible ever explicitly sit us down and talk us through 'free will' in those exact two words? No it doesn't - but outside of certain areas of modern philosophy and neuroscience - which I could certainly talk about if you would like - very few people would deny free will because it is a majorly intrinsic part of human experience. If we are deceived about possessing free will, then the deception runs very, very deep indeed - much deeper than simply misreading Bible passages. In addition to the fundamental nature of human experience, there are many passages that make it implicitly very clear that free will, the ability to choose between good and evil, is something which we do possess. These would be but a tiny selection of them: Do not envy a man of violence and do not choose any of his ways (Proverbs 3:31) And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. (Joshua 24:15) I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live (Deut 30:19) Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. (Romans 13:3) Free will is never explicitly taught in the Bible - but it is a theme that is present the whole way through the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation - if we do not have free will then, quite frankly, the Bible is completely pointless. What about the Ten Commandments? What about the Sermon on the Mount? Why would Jesus deliver the most revolutionary peice of moral teaching in the history of the human race if He knew we had no capability to choose to follow it? If we decide that we do not have free will we run into some major theological problems too: How can we be guilty for our sin if we did not choose to do it in the first place? We are innocent - we have never chosen to do wrong! In the end there can be no such thing as moral right or wrong if choice is not involved. If, then, we have not chosen to rebel against God and sinned then God is going to hold us to account for something that he made us do since we had no choice! What sort of God punishes us for no reason? Not the perfectly just God of the Bible, that's for sure! God was wasting his time on all those occasions he exhorted us to 'choose good and reject evil'. Ultimately, any theology of the cross, the fall, sin, our relationship to God will fall apart if we are not in some way free to choose. Free will is so, so fundamental to understanding these things! I do however agree with you that as humans we have a terrible bondage to sin which distorts our view on things, affects our ability to make choices, blinds us to the truth and makes us slaves. But that does not take away our free will - our responsibility for our actions. Human beings have a habit of sinning, almost by default. But this does not stop us sometimes choosing actions that are ultimately good - Christian or not! Regardless of whether Christ has or has not paid the price for my sin, we are still free to do actions and make choices which are morally good in themselves: An atheist gives his life savings to an orphanage because his conscience compels him to do so. Is this a morally praiseworthy choice? Yes - though this will never 'cancel out' the weight of his sin, this one action is a reflection of God's will written on the hearts of all men. (Romans 2:15) An agnostic artist decides to use her talents to paint a beautiful landscape artwork. Is this meaningless without Christ, or does this still in some way reflect God's glory as the author of her talent and the creator of the landscape? Yes, it does reflect that God-given glory that rests in all of us - usually suppressed by human things! We often see Hitler as the epitome of evil and slavery to sin. In many respects this is probably true, but it is also true that there were many people in Hitlers life to whom he was very kind. Obviously this does not atone for the holocaust or make him a 'good person' (whatever that means), but goes to show that even someone so blinded by sin can still occasionally exercise their free will and choose what is right. Without free will, there is no responsibility to sin. Only with an acceptance of free will can we accept our responsibility for our sin. And this we must do! God Bless, Matt


Vanessa Hall(@d2g1110)

  We are free corporal beings who have God-given abilities to choose right or wrong, good or bad, righteousness or unrighteousness. Our free-will is our ability to freely think, act, and choose. God gave us this ability in his design of human beings. For example, Lucifer lived with God until the day He sinned against Him. Not only did Lucifer sin, but he convinced many angels to sin against God too. How could Lucifer make a decision or act in a way that would change his life forever? Lucifer's actions derived from his God-given ability to think and act independently as a free-will being. Another good example of our free-will is when Eve lived in the Garden of Eden and acted on behalf of Lucifer to sin against God by eating of the forbidden fruit. She, too, demonstrated this God-given ability to think and act independently. The ability to know right from wrong is inherent and that is why we are free-will beings. The atoning work of Jesus Christ and His return to heaven gave humans: 1). A new nature; one that can choose to act and think like Jesus. Our new nature is sealed with 2). God's Holy Spirit - The Holy Spirit indwells us and gives us power to overcome sinful acts and thoughts. That is why we need the entire ministry of the Trinity to live a life pleasing to God. God the Father - gives us His riches (HIS GRACE) and has adopted us to be His children through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ - gives us the privileges of God's grace and the right to be called God's children. Holy Spirit - gives us the power to think and act in alignment with Christ and not Satan or ourselves. Thanks for your blog! His Best- Vanessa


Benjamin Foulks(@galahad)

  This is a most difficult subject. I find it almost impossible to comment here without our having some common frame of reference, which would be what you believe The Doctrine of Free Will is, as taught by others. I have discussed this subject at great length and have found as many different ideas on it as there are people. You say, "A sinful man will choose wrongdoing in the simple rejection of Christ. Rejection alone causes man to miss God." You speak of "choosing Christ as Lord and Savior." Is this not freewill? To reject or choose Christ as Lord and Savior? Yet your blog title declares that scriptures show man does not have freewill. So you have me confused. If you mean by no "Free Will" that man is incapable of choosing and doing right in order to find favor with God, then I am in absolute agreement. This would be salvation by works, which scripture clearly teaches is impossible.


Hoyle Dabbs+(@tchable)

  If we truly have no free will of choice then we would never be able to make a decision on our own. While I agree we are influenced by evil and born with a sin nature that does not mean we are born without free will, the ability to choose for ourselves. Having no free will means not having the option of chosing to do right or wrong . . . to listen to and obey Holy Spirit or listen to and obey the evil one.

Choose for yourselves today who you will serve . . . as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Now that is free will.


Blessings from NC


Ricky Roehm(@rickroehm)

  Free Will is not a Biblical term. Free Will is term used in modern Philosophy and Psychology. Look it up in your dictionary or on the Web in Wikopedia. Free Will is a human opinion and not used one single time in the Bible. Bible doctrine says the will of man is corrupt, evil, and in bondage to sin. No freedom to choose to be righteous. If man chooses right outside of Christ his choices are wrong in the eyes of God. None righteous no not one. The will of man is carnal as the Bible states we are servants to sin or carnal sold under sin. Romans 6 and 7. The human will is controlled by a sinful nature and that's why the wrath of God abideth upon the souls of men without Christ. Eph. 2. When man's moral depravity is acknowledged more in these latter days he will see more of his need for a Saviour and a Saviours redemptive work at Calvary. Unsaved men do not choose Christ. Unsaved men are broken by the Spirit of God when they hear the Gospel...and "trust" Christ for personal forgiveness and Salvation of the human soul. A corrupt will has no pleasure in Christ or His righteouness. Trusting is not choosing. Trust is when you give consent to God "after" your will is broken by the power of Christ through hearing the Gospel message. The soul is a part of man that has the power to choose or decide. An unsaved soul will not and cannot choose to do right without redemption. The will of man is to do right in his own eyes. A corrupt will lives and moves out of harmony with the will of God. The only way a fallen man can "accept" Christ is when the will is broken and thus gives consent to God through belief and trust. Again I state, The Bible does not use the term Free Will. Free Will is term used in modern Philosophy and Psychology. Check it out! John 1:12-13...But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Billy Beard+(@billyb)

  Rick, I love you as a Brother in Christ, and a friend, you know that. Though the actual term 'free will' is not in the Bible, the teaching is, my view. The actual words 'original sin', isn't either. And the actual words 'depraved', 'depravity', 'trinity', and many others, at least KJV. In Christianity itself, I see man with freedom to choose. We are told to walk in the Spirit, let Him guide and master our lives, submit and obey Him, but obviously, many do not. That I see as freedom of choice, free-will. We can trample underfoot the blood of Christ, if one foolishly chooses to.

I agree with you that without God reaching out to us, through the Holy Spirit, through His word, preaching and believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, His drawing man to Him through that blood, no, we would not freely come. Yet, scripture clearly tells us that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. It clearly says here what God wills. Yet He will allow man the choice to reject, and continue to walk in unbelief. I see this as free-will, freedom to choose. The penalty is eternal.

Serving in the church, and seeing how some live, I became a believer in freedom to choose. God sure doesn't make man walk contrary to His will, we choose to, freely. Love you Brother, you come through Tennessee, holler at me, I will buy you some biscuits and gravy, and come hear you preach. God Bless.


Ricky Roehm(@rickroehm)

  No man chooses to reject Christ. Man rejects Christ because its his nature and make-up. A natural man is rebel against God. The Bible says man can't do anything good in the eyes of God without Christ. None doeth good, no not one. Without Christ this man's choices and decisions are vain. When the Gospel is heard something happens. First you have conviction...the work of the Holy Spirit. Second you have Repentance (mans change of mind) that takes place under the Holy Spirit's directive as the goodness of God leads. Rom. 2:4 Then you have belief in Christ that follows repentance. Belief is consent that comes from the "broken human will". God has to break the will before man will believe that Christ is God in the flesh. By trusting only in the redemptive work of Christ for personal forgivenenss of sins the new man has the power to do right. Trust is not a choice its an action or result of the broken will. When man's fallen will is broken by the power of the Gospel...he can accept Christ and God will give him a new nature. The only way a fallen man can accept Christ is if the will is broken and man sees himself as nothing. Christ becomes everything. The will of a fallen man, "will not" and "cannot" do the will of God no matter how hard man tries. Man can choose and decide to do right all day long and still miss the redemptive work of Christ. He is enslaved to a fallen will until that will is broken by God... to a place of trust and acceptance of Christ as Saviour and Redeemer. God's mercy found in the death of a Saviour..allows a broken man to receive personal forgiveness for his past sins, by faith...not choice. Glory to Christ! Without understanding of human depravity there is no need for Christ. When depravity is recognized man sees his need for a Saviour and Christ can deliver him from it. God can break the human will! Glory! Meekness reveals holiness and shows the surrendered life and will. Are you surrendered? If so the old will is crushed by the power of God. God knows my desire is to please Him. Sometimes I don't preach or write things pleasing to men in the midst. I realize these things get close to peoples consciences or doctrines. I do it strictly for God. So be it. I love every human being on earth. I love everyone at this Blog and I do this work with joy. Hope you all love me.


Author: Billy Beard+
Posted
  Rick, we are at the whole point. "shows the surrendered life and will", "Are you surrendered?". Only through the mercy and grace of God do we arrive here. But, Who chooses?


Author: Ricky Roehm
Posted
  Man doesn't choose to be made righteous at will. Right and wrong decisions cause men to stagger. Abraham staggered not! Abraham was fully persuaded.

The Bible teaches that God "imputes" righteousness to man by belief. Belief is not a choice but it is consent of will from a broken man. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Human choice is not the factor that changes man morally. Belief shows a man totally given to God not just by choice but in submission and consent. Man cannot give consent to God unless he is first broken. Brokeness from a corrupt will allows man to believe unto righteousness. Rom. 10:10

The theme of the Bible does not teach human choice but righteousness by faith. Righteousness comes from God. Belief is not simply choosing right from wrong. Belief is a brokeness of the human will that brings acceptance, consent of the whole man, and trust in God and Christ. The unbelieing world can be broken anytime in life to an acceptance of Christ. No predestination here. If man is genuinely saved he will never let go of God's saving Grace.

God sways a sinful man in conviction.
God sways a sinful man in repentance.
God sways man to beleive. How? God gets man away from himself by showing him what he really is in light of Christ. When man realizes who Christ is...he believes.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God not by human choice. The Word is effectual and comes by a preacher sent by God. Preachers persuade men to avoid the terror of the Lord. The Gospel message is what brings men to Christ. Not just human choice.


Author: Billy Beard+
Posted
  Rick, I won't get into word semantics, they are fruitless, God is not the author of that. Without God working on our behalf, we have no hope. But He did, and He does. He allows choice to surrender and follow Him, everyone is invited to. It is an "all", "any", "whosoever will", gospel. I believe 'whosoever will' explains it clear enough, and, 'God is not willing', as well, so I will stop here. We can cooperate, or we can shake our fist and walk away. God gives that choice. God does not condemn any to hell, without that offer to us.

I believe in depravity same as anyone, so long as it is taken in this context.


K Reynolds+(@kreynolds)

  I absolutely believe God does not force His will upon us in regards to accepting His love. We have a word for that and it is not love... it quite simply is called rape. Sorry to be so blunt about it but that is true. Love is something that must be freely given or it is not love, period. Please show me where Jesus ever forced Himself upon anyone? The very man who betrayed Him, was one of His disciples. That didn't have to be, you know. It could have been anyone. To me, that is a demonstration of how far God is willing to go. Despite the fact that Jesus knew exactly the choice Judas would make, He gave him every opportunity not to do it.

Are you really suggesting that it is God's fault if a person is lost for all eternity? It is because God chose to not save them? That is what it sounds like to me. I happen to believe that God extends us love toward us all... the question is... will we respond to it.

I am wondering, did you "force" your wife to love you or did she choose to love you? Did you "force" her to marry you or did she choose to do so? Is the idea of forcing her to love and marry you repugnant as opposed to her choosing to do so? Why? Don't you feel that God has the same reaction?

Just my thoughts on the matter.

K :princess:


Ricky Roehm(@rickroehm)

  Men do not naturally accept Christ because their will is corrupt. Man is a rejecter of Christ by nature. That's why they are children of wrath. The wrath of God abideth upon those who reject Christ. This is all unbeliever's. Without preaching about Christ the unsaved world will miss God's Mercy and Eternity in Heaven. A burning Hell awaits that crowd. I compare this to Noah who preached for a 120 years. Only eight souls were saved from the Judgment waters of God. Where was God's mercy in the Flood? Only in the Ark. The rest of the world rejected God and experienced the waters of the Flood within God's Judgment and Wrath. They had no way out because mercy was only in the Ark. Today, God still draws men to Christ by preaching. When men, learn, hear, and are taught about God there's an effectual work that takes place upon the soul of fallen man. Man is swayed by the power of God. God sways fallen man to belief in Christ by revealing mercy and love through a Saviour that suffered, bled, and hung on a cross for the sins of humanity. God doesn't force men to believe. If he did we wouldn't have any sinners. All men would be holy and clean. God sent His Holy Spirit to "reprove" man of sin and unrighteousness when they hear about Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts men to repentance or change of mind. Look at what happpened when Peter preached Christ to the Jews who were responsible for the crucifixion of Christ. This Jewish crowd cried out..."What shall we do". Acts 2:37-38...Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Conviction fell from God Repentance caused from God caused men to turn to Christ Remmision of sins (not by asking or choosing) but because of trust in Christ's redemption brought Salvation. The Spirit's Baptism put the believer into Christ No vengeful force by God! No free choice by mans own accord! These Jewish Brethren were swayed by the Gospel that was preached to them by Peter. The power of the Gospel was behind Peter's message. Behind every sin is rejection of Christ. These Jewish Brethren had to be broken from the inherited rejection in their hearts in order to receive the love of the truth. Many did! Many were broken! Glory! They turned because of a Saviour's love for them! They turned because of a Saviour's mercy for them! They turned because of a Saviour's blessing by the Grace of God! Those who were saved...were saved by Grace through faith..not of themselves. It was a gift from God...Eph. 2:8 Read it! Not of themselves.


Hoyle Dabbs+(@tchable)

  Rick Said:

"Examine this closely and be blessed by the truth of God's Word and not tradition or human opinion! It will take you to Christ and get you away from debates."


Seems this is not working here . . . anyone have any idea why?

Blessings,
Tch


Author: Benjamin Foulks
Posted
  I was pondering this same thing, tchable. I do have my own idea, which was too lengthy to post here; so I posted it in a sperarate blog entitled, "The Mountain - The Climb of Faith and Grace".


Christopher Quek+(@arisensleeper)

  Dear Brothers and sisters in Christ, in my last blog, I shared how changes in my life and ministry have taken much of my free time and why I have not blogged or commented in the last few months. I feel compelled to add that this blog also represents one of the reasons why I have refrained from blogging and commenting of late. There is enough contention and strife in this world to fill a lifetime and I am tired of the strife that pops up ever so often in here. There is a difference between sound doctrine and dogma and there is no room for dogma in the Kingdom of God. Many comments in here have already done an excellent job in defending the Bible's teaching that we are to choose and hence have free will. I will not seek to add to these.

The first problem I wish to address is the danger of dogma that rejects a teaching simply because the exact words "free will" is not expressedly used in Scripture. If this were the case, we would have to throw out other teachings and doctrines that do not use the exact expressed words or phrases in a particular language translation of Scripture. Words such as "Trinity", "Unconditional Atonement", "Eternal Salvation", "Original Sin", and so on. Similarly, does it mean that other words and phrases not expressedly used in the Bible mean that they are permissible? For example, words like "Insider Trading", "Human Trafficking", "Drug Addiction", "Spousal Abuse", "Pedophilia", and so on?

The second problem that needs to be addressed here is the underlying assumption that God cannot give man free will and demand that man make choices to glorify Him and still maintain total and absolute sovereignty in all things. Is God limited? God forbid! Teachings that seek to deny the reality and culpability of human choice stem from a fundamental inability to acknowledge an almighty God in whom all things are possible. Throughout Scripture, the concept that man is required to choose and that his choices are the basis upon which he is judged is a constant that runs through both Old and New Testament. Reject the teaching that man is free to choose and you also have to reject every exhortation in Scripture to run after righteousness, flee evil, do good, love our neighbours, love our enemies. Indeed, if we reject Scriptural teaching that we MUST choose to obey God and to seek righteousness, we would have to take a marker and blot out entire sections of Scripture! Conversely, the Bible does also teach that no one comes to the Father but by Christ; that if there is any good in us it is only by the Holy Spirit; that we are incapable of choosing Him unless the Holy Spirit draws us. These are also true! The problem lies in rejecting one because of the other! When we do so we pigeonhole God to our own standards and limitations and in effect limit God in our minds.

What are we to say then when a believer sins (as we all do from time to time)? Does it mean that God is to be blamed? God forbid! What if a man or woman rejects the gift of salvation? If indeed it is because God through His Holy Spirit has predetermined not to contend with that soul, is God to be blamed? Once again God forbid! His Spirit calls out to all men and women for it His will that all be saved. He contends for the hearts of all men and women and those who reject Him do so by their own choices and to their own peril. His love, mercy and grace extends the gift of salvation to all, His justice and righteousness demands that this is so, and by that same justice and righteousness He will judge and so Scripture declares that "(we) are without excuse O man!"

The last problem that I will address is far more practical. I work with addicts, ex-convicts, prostitutes, criminals, runaways ... the sinful and the marginalized. Modern secular society have already given them enough excuses to legitimize their actions. They are not responsible for their actions because of their upbringing, their circumstance, their backgrounds. They are victims with no choice! Scripture does not give us the luxury of such excuses and Christians need not add fuel to the fire by claiming faulty doctrinal basis for anyone to claim that God is responsible because we really do not have a free will and are incapable of making choices! When an addict sticks a needle up his or her arm, or when a man holds up a convenience store, or abuses a child, they did it by themselves, exercising the God given ability to choose. Yes, we need to have compassion for their circumstance, but in the end they (and we) need to acknowledge that it is they themselves who chose the path they chose. This is what Scripture declares when It tells us that we must confess our sins and repent of them. Both need to acknowledge that it is their own choice-driven actions alone that is to to be blamed for their action! From my own experience, healing and sanctification starts when we acknowledge our own culpability in our sinful action. The world would have us believe that we are helpless victims without choice! Scriptures declares that we are victors through Christ who empowers us. The denial of the Biblical teaching that man is to choose is yet another excuse we offer to men and women ... an excuse that they are victims with the terrible result of placing blame on God for that victimization!

Faulty incomplete and dogmatic teaching is dangerous. It does more harm than good and at root they deny the very sovereignty of the almighty, loving, and just God whom we love and serve. Scripture teaches both positions expressed here. It does not teach us to reject one in lieu of the other! Can it be difficult to understand? YES! Is it a mystery? YES! Is it beyond the ken of the human mind? YES! But such is the substance of faith, take Scripture at its Word! Have the courage to believe even when reason fails!

Selah,
Arisen


Christopher Quek+(@arisensleeper)

  What truly saddens me is that both sides speak the truth. Each claiming to speak for God. Each with thinly veiled insinuations that those who believe differently than they are somehow less than Godly. I for one do not see God glorified in this at all, nor do I see any edification coming from it.

Does scripture say that we are to choose? Does it contain numerous passages that exhorts us to seek God, to choose Him and His ways? Does it say that we are to choose to flee evil? Of course it does! Here is just a small sampling from just a few books of the Old Testament alone:
"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live" (Deuteronomy 30:19)

"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:15)

Who is the man that fears the LORD? Him shall He teach in the way He chooses. (Psalm 25:12)

Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me. Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the LORD, they would have none of my counsel and despised my every rebuke (Proverbs 1:28-30)

Do not envy the oppressor, and choose none of his ways (Proverbs 3:31)

"Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good (Isaiah 7:15)

For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose what pleases Me, and hold fast My covenant (Isaiah 56:4)

Therefore I will number you for the sword, and you shall all bow down to the slaughter; because, when I called, you did not answer; when I spoke, you did not hear, but did evil before My eyes, and chose that in which I do not delight. (Isaiah 65:12)

So will I choose their delusions, and bring their fears on them; because, when I called, no one answered, when I spoke they did not hear; but they did evil before My eyes, and chose that in which I do not delight (Isaiah 66:4)

I am not even going to list the numerous verses in the Gospels in which Christ Himself exhorts us to choose to obey God and to do that which please Him (Just read the Sermon on The Mount!). Nor am I going to list the numerous verses in the Epistles that clearly indicate that believers are to make conscious and volitional choices to love, to forgive, to be merciful ... passages that tell us to flee evil, refrain from sinful thoughts and behavior, reject false doctrines, and so on.

Hence, to insist that the doctrine of free will is a man made thing just because the words "free will" does not appear in it's exact form in the English translation in the King James Version of the Bible is irresponsible theology and doctrine, it betrays a fundamental lack of desire to study God's Word with diligence, seeking to discover His Truth.

On the other hand, as Brother Rick has so clearly articulated, Scripture is clear that we have nothing to boast. It is only by the Holy Spirit that we are drawn to receive Him. Indeed it is only by His empowering that we are able to obey Him and to do that which Scripture commands and exhorts. These verses teach us HUMILITY -- the one thing that is sorely lacking here. Herein lies the eternal mystery that only God can and will resolve when all things are revealed in the last days. The role of human agency (choice) and the interplay between God's sovereign work and plan can only be seen by us "darkly". It keeps us humble (at least it does me) and it also keeps us alert and accountable at the same time. This I believe is by God's perfect design. It keeps us striving after Holiness and righteousness. It reminds us of our sinful nature. It makes us mindful that ultimately that the life of Faith is a narrow path fraught with daily challenges, the least of which is the constant temptations brought about by the flesh. It is why the Lord reminds us that we should pray daily for God to keep us from temptation and deliver us from evil ... to forgive us our trespasses! If indeed the saved and regenerate man is incapable of making the wrong choices and sin as a result, such a pattern of prayer would not be needed! Do not be fooled or complacent, the believer is not exempt from sin no matter how small! Sin is sin in God's eyes! There is nothing as a small sin and a big sin! Have you ever been curt with someone? Have you ever lost your patience? Have you never been tempted by greed, lust, avarice? Christ taught us that it matters not even if we do not act on it. Remember that even lusting after a woman in the heart is already adultery? Christmas is coming, have you never had one helping of turkey or pie too many? Scripture calls this gluttony! I marvel at the overweening pride of those who call themselves Christ followers who claim that they are incapable of sin because God has somehow made it impossible of them to do so ... some honesty and self examination by the leading of the Holy Spirit is sorely needed in such cases.

So, what does this all mean? I do not have all the answers, no one does! Nevertheless, let me humbly offer the lessons I have learnt from Scriptures by the prompting of the Holy Spirit:
  1. I have no cause to boast for it is God who in His Grace and Mercy granted me salvation through the gift made possible by the death and resurrection of Christ. If indeed my choosing Christ has anything to do with my salvation, I am reminded that that choice is only possible because He made it possible! Without the sacrificial work of Christ on the Cross and His victory over the grave I would have no choice to speak of! Further, I have learnt through the work of the Spirit and through the revelation of Scripture and through His work in my life that it was God who drew me and it was God who empowered me so that I might "make the choice" for indeed there was nothing in me, the man given over to sin, that would cause me to desire God! Hence, that I did exercise my choice is true and that He empowered me to make that choice is also true for in Him all things are possible!
  2. My sins are my own. They were the result of my choices, driven by my own sinful nature. I have no one to blame, nothing to blame and God's sovereignty is not excuse for my own actions. His Scriptures have declared with unequivocal clarity that He has given me the ability AND the responsibility to choose. The fact that He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent only tells me that in Him all things are possible with Him and this includes granting me the unfettered ability to make my own choices (exercise my will) without sacrificing for one moment His ultimate dominion over all things!
  3. I am righteous only because He imputed His righteousness upon me. There is nothing that I can do to deserve it, earn it, or purchase it. Indeed, there is no goodness in me but His. I am aware that my ways are not His ways and my thoughts not His thoughts and if given over to my own devices, I am incapable of anything good. Indeed, even if I were to try to observe all that is in the Scriptures, and if indeed this were remotely possible, I would still fail for all the good that I do, if not done in accordance to His will for me would be tantamount to sin no matter what men might say or judge. This, I have learnt through the lessons He has taught in my life. If His will is for me to serve the poor and I choose instead to live a life of servitude in preaching and teaching, I would still be outside His will, no matter how "noble" or "righteous" it may seem in my own eyes or in the eyes of man. Here is the rub dear brothers and sisters in Christ, sin is being outside the will of God and hence, the deeper lesson of Scripture becomes painfully clear when it declares that "all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"! Herein too lies the greatness of His love, grace, and mercy to me -- I would still be saved even though I did not live within His will!
  4. Scripture declares that even though I am saved, a new creature in the eyes of God, He does not summarily remove my propensity for sin nor my propensity for selfishness. He has regenerated my mind and I have become acutely aware of that which pleases Him and that which do not. He has also made me aware that it is only in Him and through Him that I will make the choices that please Him and do that which glorify Him. I have learnt that my first and most important choice is to to choose to let Him lead, to ask Him to guard my mind and my actions. If I do this, I do that which Paul exhorts, "to present ourselves (myself) as living sacrifices which is our (my) reasonable service. If I choose to let Him truly be the Lord of my life, then I am empowered to live a holy and righteous life. The knowledge that I have to choose Him, keeps me accountable and diligent. The knowledge that He will meet all my needs and empower me, gives my confidence. The knowledge that it is not I but Him keeps me humble.

Because of all these, I encourage all to choose Christ. To live surrendered lives. To remain humble. To praise Him and Glorify Him in all things. There is NO error in Scripture. The error lies only in us!

Selah
Arisen


Ricky Roehm(@rickroehm)

  Pertaining to the "tainted will of fallen man" please examine the three types of man taught in the Bible. 1. A sinful man that is a sinner by nature, and a natural rejecter of Christ because the will, the reasoning, and the intellect, is controlled by indwelling sin. The choices and decisions of a sinner by nature...naturally reject Christ and the power of His Grace. This man can do nothing "right in the eyes of God". 1 Cor 2:14...But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, 2. A believer in Christ, (a justified man) with a divine nature and the still existing inner conflict caused from the Old Adamic life or a rebellious will. The war in this man's members is caused from the Old Adam that still tries to rule in the life of a born again Christian. Rom 7:23..But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. This Christian doesn't realize he can be completely delivered from indwelling sin through an of Sanctification by Grace. The old will is still there and thus tries to rise against the divine nature recieved in regenerating power of the new birth. When a sin is comitted, the man of God turns from his belief and trust in Christ. He loses faith in Christ, yields to the human will, and thus commits a sinful act against God Almighty. Behind this act of sin is "rejection" of Christ that saves the human soul. Rejection of Christ is caused from unbelief. Rejection of Christ is caused from the dominant will of man "not completely yielded" to the Grace of God by trusting Christ for Salvation. This man is not completely controlled by the Indwelling Spirit. He can weave in and out of belief and obedience to God. He's double minded and very unstble. He chooses right, but does wrong. He decides to do right, or decides to be holy but lives an unrighteous or unholy life. Behind every act of unrighteousness and unholy conduct is rejection of Christ. Why rejection? No complete trust in the saving Grace of God that flows (morally) into the heart of man from Christ our Lord and Saviour. This believer loses faith, regains faith, loses faith and regains faith with no peace, no contentment, and no joy. He is not happy! He is a miserable man. This type of life is not victorious. 3. A believer completely under the control of the Indwelling Spirit of God (a sanctified man) without a struggle caused from the Old Adam because the will has been "crushed". This is a justified man that is also sanctified completely and ridded from indwelling sin that controls the human will. This is a believer that is no longer controlled by indwelling sin and the tainted will is crushed by the authority of Christ. This believer trusts Christ completely and there is no rejection or unbelief found in his heart. He doesn't have a desire to sin or disobey God. He trusts Christ with everthing he's got within his being! He is a holy man of God at all times. His actions, his choices, and his decisions are controlled by the power of God's Grace, "to be right and do right". Why? How? Instantaneous Sanctification (not progressive) that comes as a result of the Baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire destroys the inner struggle that formerly gave the Old Adam a place to rise up. This blessing of God's Divine Grace can take over a man by crushing the human will, the human affections, and the human desires to do wrong in the eyes of God, completely. Yes, completely! His thinking, his actions, and his complete character are completely in subjection to Christ with no desire to partake in sin or wrongdoing. He's ashamed of hte old life. A sanctified man does right because his heart is clean and free from the Adamic Life. He chooses right because his heart is clean, pure, and free. There is no inner conflict or inner struggle anymore. The divine nature rules without the struggle caused from the Old Adam. The human will was "crushed" by Divine Grace. the Adamic nature was "destoyed".The natural inclination to do wrong was destroyed by the Spirit of God in Romans 6. The spiritual tendancy of a controlled man by the Indwelling Spirit is to do the perfect will of God. Glory! This is where God wants all believer's to be. Single minded...not double minded. Entirely sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost. Owned, ruled, and controlled by the Indwelling Spirit of God. Not Indwelling sin! Acceptance of Christ without rejection, unbelief, or disobedience. Subject to Christ's authority at all times. Perfect submission no rebellion. Holiness of heart and conduct. Living right without sin. Not controlled by self where the human will is not just broken...but crushed to a place where man realizes he is "dust at the Saviour's feet". Totally dependant on Christ for everthing in life. Rom 8:1-4...There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. I am not alone, as the Spirit of Christ abides with this writer. The power of Christ's resurrection is behind me. Blessed be His Holy name forever! Greater is he that's in me...than he that's in the world.


Author: Christopher Quek+
Posted
  Dear Brother Rick, I agree with much of what you say with the exception of instantaneous sanctification. We are changed, yes, but the numerous verses that are quoted to support the doctrine of instantaneous and complete sanctification do not in fact say that. Rom 8:1-4 for instance is a partial culmination of Paul's message in the preceding chapters regarding the Law, the flesh, and the Spirit. He says:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors -- not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs -- heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.


Note verse 13 ... It is US who choose to live according to the flesh and it is US - BY THE SPIRIT who put to death the deeds of the body. If you were to examine and study the words in these verses, words like "walk", "live", "led" are volitional words. At no time do these verses suggest that the Holy Spirit will compel the believer to live in a particular way without the active and volitional participation of the believer. Rather than supporting the denial of free will, these verses in fact support it and reveal in the words "if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live" (v 13) the very thing which I have been pleading ... that it is BY THE SPIRIT that we are empowered and it is by our choose that WE put to death.

Dear brother, the teaching that you have been sharing comes from the "Holiness Movement" which suggest that he who is truly saved is instantaneously sanctified and from thence become incapable of sin. This results in judging any who stumble are not fully regenerate ... a very dangerous teaching indeed.

Moreover, if your read your own definition of the "three types of man" especially 2. "A believer in Christ, (a justified man) with a divine nature and the still existing inner conflict caused from the Old Adamic life or a rebellious will" and 3. A believer completely under the control of the Indwelling Spirit of God (a sanctified man) without a struggle caused from the Old Adam because the will has been "crushed". You will see how you do in fact acknowledge that man chooses ... one where the human will is not completely surrendered and one in which it is. You will also see how in this you set up a hierarchy of believers, the less than Godly and the Godly. Dear brother, I and many of my friends in ministry are totally surrendered to the leading of the Holy Spirit and the Lordship of Christ, yet none of us dare claim that we are without sin or temptation. Nor do we dare to judge a fellow believer somehow less holy than us because they stumble. Dear brother, this is a dangerous and slippery spiritual road on which you would ask us to tread. Dangerous because it can lead to spiritual pride, complacency, and judgmentalism. Slippery because in the end, we can easily end up questioning whether a believer (the justified man) is truly saved because at root there is little to distinguish him from the sinful man.

In love,
Arisen


Author: Ricky Roehm
Posted
  The holy heart and holy life begins at Justification and Regeneration. A justified man which is as holy as he will ever get... is only eligible to be sanctified from the Adamic Life with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire. A sanctified man is not more holy or more righteous than a justified man. A sanctified man is simply rid what he is by nature which is a man with a rebellious will that is crushed by the power of God.

In repentence God "broke the rebellious will of man which allowed him to believe; be justified, and born of God". All sins of the past were forgiven but the old nature still existed. Sanctification through the Baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire (that comes after Justification) doesn't deal with what men "do or the acts of sin they commit". Sanctification through the Spirit deals with "what men are by nature" that cannot be confessed or forgiven. Justified men still have a war from indwelling sin in their members. Their "old will " still wants to rise up and/or yield to temptation. Sanctification through the Spirit burns up the old conflicting will of man. Here's how.

The Spirit of God (through faith in a crucified Christ) leads the believer (a justified man) to a crucifixion of self which is Biblical. Self has to be put to death first before God can destroy or rid man of all the dross. When a justified man "realizes" the conflict from the old will and "dies", "puts to death" and /or "buries" the old man...the old rebellious will is "CRUSHED" by the power of God's Grace through the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit. This is where the righteousness of God is "fulfilled" in us per Romans 8:4. God's righteousness fulfilled in us! Fulfilled or completed! The final work!

Grace is not limited to only the new birth, regeneration, and justification which deal only with the "acts of sin" caused by the rebellious will of man. Biblical Grace goes on to teach the Baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire which is evident "inwardly" in the removal of inherited sin which is "what man is by nature"; and "outwardly" evident through speaking in unknown tongues. In the full work of god's Grace the whole man is controlled by Christ in the Throneroom.

Justification deals with what man does. Sanctification deals with what man is.

The state of holiness begins at the new birth through belief and trust in Christ. A new nature begins at the new birth. A believer doesn't progressively grow into a higher plain of holiness or new nature. God simply rids the regenerated man from the old nature through the Baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire. The heart is "purified by faith". Purified from the Adamic life and all of its dross...per Acts 15:8. The heart is sanctified entire body, soul, and spirit...per Thessalonians 5:23, 24.

Crucifixion which is death to self is the path to Sanctification through the Spirit. Death to self takes the human will out of the picture. The Holy Spirit shows the justified man the way to Sanctification through the Baptism with the Holy ghost and fire.

Regeneration in the new birth is Biblical.
Justification is Biblical.
Crucifixion of self is Biblical.
Sanctification through the Baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire is Biblical.

All the above deal with the rebellious will of man that is totally out of harmony with the will of God. God's Grace through Christ provides man with a way to get rid of the sin nature, the rebellious will, and disobedience to God...completely. You must have a clean heart!


Billy Beard+(@billyb)

  God has provided the remedy. He has made His salvation available to ALL. What does that leave? It ain't gonna be Gods fault folks, I guarantee you that. We will account for the deeds, and we ain't gonna blame Him for them either. Well, I suppose one can try. God have mercy on all of us.

I love, both sides, and any or all in between. Jesus Christ, is the 'way, truth, and life'. Whosoever BELIEVETH. Hope that is not too pushy. Have mercy. Merry Christmas, and I do mean CHRISTmas! In Christ, Billy


Curtis Proffitt(@pointofview)

  Rick, I apologize in advance if my quest for clarity misses the mark. From what I have read the issue you are stating is not, "Man has no will." Are you saying that man in his desire to be "godlike" is deceived into believing the exercise of his will is free? Simply put, and I am not stating as fact but for understanding, there are only two wills relevant to the experience of man. One will, doing that which is right by the indwelling Holy Spirit, brings about reward. The other, whether accomplished by you, me, or the devil (doing as you please), brings about loss.


Author: Ricky Roehm
Posted
  Trusting in Christ is not choosing to do right. Trusting Christ comes when the human rebellious will is "broken" to a place of repentance or change of mind. The natural will of man is to "reject Christ" not to "accept Him". Only God can sway or break fallen man enough to believe. Many say we have the free will to choose right from wrong. The will of man is not free...to do right or choose right..it is actually controlled by the sinful nature. Sinful Man has to be morally changed by Divine Grace to do right. After God comes in (divine nature) man will do the will of God because the soul has been converted. Men of God do not trust in human choice. They trust in the power of God's Grace. The Bible says "we are kept" by the power of God through faith. Think about God's keeping power. Men of God don't choose to do right...they are made righteous and live holy by Grace. They are made "new".

God Bless...


Casey Cooney(@taxman)

  Hello, Forgive me if my ignorance shows: I am most certainly not a theologian, but I think that this is a very simple issue. The point of creation is to love and give glory to God. From what we know of true love, it must be the fruit of a freely elected choice. No one is bound into sin by divine, unavoidable machinations: to imply so is accusing God of sin. Neither can anyone pawn off guilt on the "sinful nature", that would be disowning blame. God gave man a conscience to discern right from wrong, and the will to choose whatever course is more prudent to us.


Author: Ricky Roehm
Posted
  Dear Brother,

Your comment is not taken lightly. The language of the New Testament teaches man is "under" sin or "controlled" by a sinful nature with a rebellious will against God. Sin dominates man's entire being mind, will, and intellect. Without redemption from Christ...men are compelled to do wrong in the eyes of God. Why? Sin is the carnal nature of man. Sin controls man's thoughts and intents. Sin has a tendency to lead man into violation of God's Divine Law. The will of man is corrupt by nature.

Rom 3:9-10...for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Rom 5:19...For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners

Rom 7:14...but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The acts of sin can be confessed or pardoned by God in Justification. Justification deals with the state of man. Man is guilty in the eyes of God for every sin he ever committed.

The sin nature cannot be confessed or forgiven however; man is not accountable for this inherited nature. A child is not guilty in the eyes of God for inherited sin.

Rom 5:13...but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 7:9...For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The only thing that rids man from inhertited sin is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire that follows the new birth. This act of God is Sanctification that delievers man from what he is...not the acts of sin he committed. Only the power of God can sanctify man's heart from the carnal nature that controls the human will. Sanctification deals with the nature of man.

May the truth of God's Word bring clarity to your heart.


Benjamin Foulks(@galahad)

  Dear Brother Rick, I could point out that the term "broken will" is not found in scripture, just as you have well pointed out that the term "free will" is not found in scripture. But such a debate tactic is beneath both of us. I am very disappointed that when I use the term "free will" you are determined to tell me what I mean when I use it, instead of listening to my own words as to what I mean. This has caused some division; not your truthful response to other comments here, but a failure on your part to listen and realize that we are all agreeing more than you recognize. That unregenerate man cannot choose to do right is clear; summed up in "All our righteousness are as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6). All of it. Even 'trusting' and 'believing' alone could never have brought us into right standing with God had He not in His Sovereign Will first shown Grace in His provision of salvation through Jesus Christ. Salvation is the 100% Grace of God, not man's will. We did not 'will' salvation into existence. I think on this we can both agree. However, 'believing or believe', no matter how we try to veil it, is still in the original texts of The Bible a verb; an action. Whatever has led us to the point of this action (being broken by The Gospel and the power of God) we do 'choose' to believe, or as some have sadly done, choose to reject. As Christians, faith was our chosen response to God's Grace. This I believe. This alone is what I mean when I use the term "free will". Perhaps "free response" would be a more accurate term. So, I respectfully request that you please frame any response you desire to my comment based on what I am saying "free will" means to me, and refrain from telling me what I mean. I love you in Christ, Brother Rick. I think we are both saying the same thing, just using different words. God's Grace be with you. Brother Ben


Author: Ricky Roehm
Posted
  Thank you my dear Brother for the heartfelt response. This preacher does listen also. I have also read and examined your response closely and your sincerity comes through brightly, for the cause of Christ. I respect your stance for the truth of God's word. I am not writing the following reply to put someone down or to put myself up... only to bring clairity to my stance.

Please allow me to expound on two things:
1. Concerning man's rebellious will that naturally rejects Christ and;
2. Man's will being broken enough by the power of the Spirit of God...to beleive in Christ or trust Him for personal Salvation.

The Bible says the fallen nature of man is the root of why man is completely "under sin" or "completely controlled by sin"...mind, will, and body. This includes the whole man, his nature and being, and his mental process. The Bible says in fallen man without Christ no good can be found; nor can man do any good; nor can man think any good. Fallen man is a rebel against God Almighty. Fallen man doesn't choose to reject Christ nor can he choose to do good on his own accord without Christ. This man is a rejecter of Christ by nature. His choices and decisions are not controlled by the Spirit of God but by the fallen nature of man. His nature causes him to rebel against God, to reject Christ, and to do things outside the Grace of God. Behind every sin is rejection of Christ. Certain things may appear to be good in man's own eyes, but in the eyes of God for a man without Christ there no goodness is found only lawlessness. Fallen man is "under sin", "carnal", and "a servant to sin". Why? The whole man is tainted by sin and death and therefore by nature a child of wrath.

Eph 2:3...Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,

A child of wrath cannot choose or decide to do good in the eyes of God because the will is completely under the control of a carnal nature which causes man to be a man that abiedeth under the wrath of God. That's why a sinner is under God's Divine Judgment.

As for the broken will? The Bible teaches that the Spirit of God..."reproves man of sin and righteousness", "The Spirit of God ****** man's heart", and "The goodness of God leadeth man to repentance". All this Bible language indicates that God has an effect on the heart of fallen man enough for him to turn from evil or to give consent to God in belief. Fallen man is totally under the control of sin and rebellion. The tainted and corrupt will of man is in direct opposition to the will of God. The corrupt will of man naturally "rejects" Christ and does not naturally "accept" Christ. This is where the power of God's Holy Spirit comes in. The Holy Spirit has an effect on fallen man, on fallen man's being, on fallen man's corrupt will, and on fallen man's carnal nature.

This ministry of the Holy Spirit "testifies" Christ to the human soul. When the supremacy of Christ is recognized by fallen man... man sees in himself in sin and with no good within at all. He sees a man empty and void of any good whatsoever. He sees that man is without strength and an enemy to God. When fallen man sees and recognizes the authority of Christ he "bows" at the Saviours feet. Through recognition of Christ man understands his sinfulness, his lawlessness, his hopelessness, and his helplessness without Christ. He is melted to a place of contrition. When Christ is revealed man is broken to a place of acceptance and trust. Only the power of Christ can "break" or "melt" or "lead fallen man to contrition or repentance". The Bible does teach that man's rebellious will is broken when Christ is recognized and accepted. How is Christ revealed? Through the preaching of the Gospel. The Gospel reveals "the rejection of fallen man". The Gospel compels fallen men and rejecters of Christ to repent and believe.

When fallen man "beleives, trusts, or accepts" Christ, the soul is regenerated and a new nature is given to the believer. Enough said.

Again my dear Brother thank you for your input and fellowship in the Spirit. By the Grace of God, keep in touch and I will do the same.



Add Your Comment:
In order to respond to this blog you must be a registered member and logged into the ChristianBlog.Com website.
-
Copyright © 2014 ChristianBlog.Com Policies  -  Help/FAQ  -  Contact Us  -  Membership  -  News & Announcements