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Some people say they accept Christ in their heart, but never go on from there. They never pursue a relationship which is what Christ wants; so for me, the question is, were they really saved in the first place? Were they really genuine? I know that no man on this earth can decipher the heart of another, it is God who knows the truth. Thanks for bringing up this controversial topic.
EstherAngel
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Posted 02/04/2010 12:49pm
Author: estherangel
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I respect your view point in your blog and will not take up too much space here with mine, but I would like to share a couple of things. John 6:44 sataes that no one can come to God unless the Father draws him. So we won't even seek God unless His Holy Spirit draws us to, then we must choose to repent and put our faith in Jesus. Ephesians 2:8-10-For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
States we are saved by faith thru grace and not of any works. However we are saved to do work for God thru Christ. So we can not do works to earn our salvation, but after we are saved we are to do the work of Christ to further the kingdom. I believe the thief on the Cross was saved by putting his faith in Jesus and did not have a chance to do any works.
God Bless You,
Ted
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Posted 02/04/2010 01:27pm
Author: following
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Dear Ones in Christ:
You are absolutely right in your views of our salvation being that free gift. We cannot earn that place at all. there is no works that can bring about our salvation. Just like Ester had said there are many concerns about even getting to the place where we can really claim salvation because of the trivial ways we go about accepting Christ. There are a great number of very politically correct ways of doing so today that make it quite easy to lay claim to having been saved without any real commitment to Christ at all.
I am sure that for those who have claimed Christ in various ways it becomes a personal issue not to be questioned by others, but there is also many things that someone who has genuinely been touched by the power of God's Spirit would no doubt show forth in their lives. Now for many these manifestations are shown in such things as tongues, but the real fruits of the spirit are much more than just outward signs of an inward faith. It needs to be demonstrated in much deeper ways such as change within one thought patterns and life styles. It must be evidenced by the desire to do the will of God no matter what the cost may be. At the same time we must also remember that anyone coming to Christ must begin their journey as a baby in Christ, and must be brought into an understanding of what and why these things need to take place.
I don't really know of many people that can say that they had an instant conversion which delivered them once and for all time so much that they have never struggled with living this transformation out. It is a piece by piece struggle for most of us that takes a great amount of time to bring forth the kind of usable fruit necessary for a good witness to be given. My point is that this is not an easy thing to deal with in life because the effects of it should never go away once the decision is made to follow Christ. The transformation is a life time process that cannot be taken lightly. May you richly bless God through your life in Him;
The Unworthy Servant
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Posted 02/04/2010 03:12pm
Author: theunworthyservant
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You seem to be giving your opinion about what you think salvation is with no scriptures to account for your opinions. You seem to be confusing being saved with living a life as a saved child of God. Paul said we are still in the flesh after we become a child of God and the flesh will battle the Spirit. Galatians 5:16-26
Jesus said in Mark 16:15-16 15 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
No long time conversion being taught there.
Jesus said in Luke 7:49-50 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, Who is this who even forgives sins? 50 Then He said to the woman, Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.
No long time conversion being taught there either. Her faith saved her instantly!
Acts 2:46-47-So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church[a] daily those who were being saved.
No long time conversion being taught there either.
Adding daily saved people, then they start living out their Christian life, but they were instantly saved.
The Philippian jailer-Acts 16:30-31 And he brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 So they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household
No long time conversion being taught there either.
There is a big difference in being saved and living out your Christian life. Be Careful what you teach.
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Posted 02/04/2010 04:56pm
Author: following
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You can tell what is in the heart by the walk, not by just the talk. If the walk don't match the talk, the Bible says we are liars. We are called a new creation for a very good reason. I believe an end of life salvation is possible, such as the thief on the cross, but a person would not be very wise to wait till then. And if that is the intention of one who chooses to wait till then, I am not so sure it would be real, such as his was. Paul said, "Today" is the day of salvation, for those who are called, none of the disciples urged any to wait, so this thief on the cross theology is nothing to stand on.
Jesus said "take up your cross, and follow me", I have no doubts about what that means. It is not an issue worth debating over. Picking and choosing the verses we like, and ignoring others, is a position no one should want to take. I enjoyed your blog friend, billy.
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Posted 02/04/2010 05:05pm
Author: billyb
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Dear Ones in Christ Jesus:
I seem to be hitting a nerve with some people who are taken out of their comfort zone when they consider that God may be suggesting that before the dust settles in our life there should be given some kind of proof to Him of our actually being who we say that we are. As an example from the beginning I have said that I would not be using scriptures here so that you might discern within your hearts what is true from what is false. We can spit out scriptures all day long to try to proves a point , but a wrong interpretation of scripture does not make something true. Let me explain: My brother in Christ Ted seems to be upset that I didn't do so because in some way that prove that what I am saying is true, but God's Spirit is our teacher and we should be able to discern that truth if we are allow Hm to lead us. Galatians 5:15-26 Paul does in fact say that we are in a battle that is not of this world, and that we will continue to do battle against this flesh until we are face to face with God. That only proves my point more...Mark 16:15-16 has nothing to do with an amount of time that it takes for someone to allow God to take control over their lives or allow God to teach them truth. In fact it has nothing to do with what happens at all with our belief in God...it simple tells that we are to be witnesses to this world by the foolishness of preaching , and that we should do this from the time we wake until the time we rest at night. Anyone who does not listen and refuses God is guilty of death and condemnation. Your right Ted no quick conversion there...in fact nothing about conversion is there. Luke 7:49-50 is a good fill in scripture, but it has nothing to do with the topic of discussion. It proves that Jesus was not understood by those who sat with Him as He taught, and as for the woman who's faith had been what God had made her whole I believe one of my points in the blog is that we can lean on what we profess without the intent of our hearts being able to back up what we say...God reads the intent of our hearts. Act 2:46-47" Continuing daily with one accord in the temple , and breaking bread from house to house they ate their bread with gladness and singleness of heart. Isn't the point of all of this that we are in unity with the Holy Spirit? Isn't the point of what we are talking about that God is in control? What does it mean that God added to the church daily those that were saved? Who's getting tricky here with scripture? Acts 16:30-31 When the Philippian Jailer asked that question he was given the right answer. Believe on the Lord Jesus...and you are right again my friends there is a great difference in saying that we believe in the Lord and in living it out. May you richly bless God through your life in Him;
The Unworthy Servant
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Posted 02/05/2010 08:18am
Author: theunworthyservant
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In your blog you gave the impression that being saved was not an instant event, but more of a life long process. The scriptures I quoted prove that people are saved instantly if the truly put their faith in the Lord and repent. Jesus told the woman, "your faith has saved you", He did not tell her spend a life trying to live the best way you can and hopefully you will eventually be saved. I was clarifying from the Word of God, that being saved is an instant event that is separate from us taking up our cross daily and living out our relationship with Christ which is a life long event. When I was born of my mom and dad, it was an instant event, then I started a lifelong relationship with them, but being born was a one time instant event.
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Posted 02/05/2010 09:47am
Author: following
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theunworthyservant
I fully embrace and am in agreement with your blog.
In addition, I read the blog by following which seems as if it was written as a response to your blog. I am in agreement with what he writes and do believe when you have truly repented and receive Jesus as both Lord and Savior you are instantly saved.
I believe the two of you actually are in agreement with each other. I see the difference to be what you were focusing attention on in your writing.
It is easy to say I accept Jesus as my savior and practice religion, but, not relationship. To have heart repentance toward God. receiving Jesus as both Lord and Savior and having a willingness to deny self, pick up your cross daily and follow Jesus is so much more than saying I accept Jesus as my savior. There are many who say these words, but the heart commitment to giving your life over to God is not there. Yes, God sees our hearts and He sends the Holy Spirit who draws us to Jesus Christ. Only then can we choose to commit our self and our life and truly receive Jesus as Lord and Savior and become willing to follow and serve Jesus His way.
Once we have received Jesus as Lord and Savior, the real transformation begins with the gentle leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit who has come to indwell us and He keeps us focused on Jesus. Then, for the remainder of our life, with the Holy Spirit as our counselor leading us into God's truth found in the Word of God, we work out our salvation (overcoming the "world" through Jesus) moving from glory to glory in our walk and intimate personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am so thankful and grateful that Jesus made it possible for me to have an intimate relationship with Him and experience daily the awesomeness of our Triune God.
revgenlink
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Posted 02/05/2010 08:49pm
Author: revgenlink
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Greetings in the spirit of truth and in the name and glory of Christ our Savior:
Perhaps I say things that is so out of sink with today's mindset that all thing must be instant. I don't know how many times I need to say that the gift of Salvation is free to us to receive, but not to share. If we are completely truthful with ourselves we would be forced to admit to there being a struggle in our lives everyday we live to stay in a relationship with God that is in the center of His will. We can seek out all of the scripture that speaks of our desperate need to accept that initial gift of Christ into our lives; we can memorize it and digest that fact in our lives all we want to, and still never grow in our relationship with God. I think what people don't seem to get is the fact that accepting Jesus is just the beginning...and not an end in itself. What Christ has done is to give us a chance to have a relationship with God, and He did that by paying a sin debt that we could never over come on our own. No man can come to the Father except through Christ. What you don't seem to get is the fact that after having been given that chance to known and to love God we often rest on the decision to accept the chance to love God with our whole hearts rather than to actually do it. We have millions of people sitting in the churches beside us every Sunday morning who are withering on the vine because they are not growing in that personal relationship with God that they have been plugged into. It is because we who should be there beside them as examples, and who should be there as mentors in God's Spirit are never taking the time or making the effort to do something when we can see someone else struggle. We have gotten into a mind set that takes us out of the loop when it comes to our responsibility to give testimony and witness of Christ to another who sits beside us in church. We say in our minds that if they are here then they are alright... not true. What does it mean when the words tells us unless the Holy Spirit draw them they will not come? Well the Holy Spirit is drawing them, and we in great part are doing our best to ignore them. Why do you think that all of the letters in scriptures are written to the church and not to the {Lost?} What greater hypocrisy is there than to claim Christ yet never bare fruit? What greater failure than to have Christ draw other unto Him and have you let them die away because of apathy toward their walk in Christ? Yes my friends I do believe that we are saved when we fully accept Jesus Christ as our Savior, but I don't believe it's good enough to just be drawn to Him alone. Are you an admirer? curious? a person who wants to be, but knows that inside you have not given it all? Are you a follower? How far away are you walking? are you a disciple? Do you know enough yet to understand how much you don't know? Are you a Child of God who can't wait everyday to talk to your Father and walk with Him through the day? May you richly bless God through your life in Him;
The Unworthy Servant
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Posted 02/06/2010 05:55am
Author: theunworthyservant
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Brother, I am gonna end my part here. Anyone with eyes and ears, can hear and see what you are saying, and I mean that literally. Jesus said if they accept not His sayings, we leave it at that. It was Jesus Christ who said in the messages to His churches in Revelation, "repent, endure, overcome, hold fast, hear, see, except", and gave the consequences of ignoring those words, this is much of what you speak of.
Many, as a babe, just want to be feed and cared for, years later, not understanding completely, they have to grow and mature, yes, obey and follow, "bear fruit", it was plain what happens if not. There is no other Biblical option. The scripture does not say, "heap to themselves", for no reason, we are there, this is not strange. 2 Pet. 2:2
Yet, there are a few, as Jesus said there will be, who understand, we have to take the straight and narrow way. This is no surprise, what is going on in christendom. We have to be careful that our "love does not wax cold", because of iniquity. It is only going to get worse, if repentance does not come. God gets all the Honor, Glory, and Praise, be Blessed, billy
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Posted 02/06/2010 07:31am
Author: billyb
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