First of all: Yes I'm doing another blog. I have come to believe that I should at this time. I try to keep in mind that this may change at anytime. I don't want to continue anything just out of tradition. I know this is our tendancy as fallen humans. Second: I encourage everyone to question what I write, and anyone else for that matter. Don't hessitate to ask or correct me about anything. Many years ago while still pastoring I realized what a terrible trend it is to not question what leaders say. It is bad for everyone involved. (Of course our church system breeds this trend if you care to think about it.) Likewise questioning should be normal as Christians. Think of the religions of the world, they don't tell you to question them. Yet we are told as believers to question all. I am also overly tired of this hogwash trend of "only saying the encouraging word"! No, we are to speak the truth in love. We are to correct rebuke and encourage. And any mature Christian will listen and accept the truth without lashing out. Now about this evil... I do not care to watch or read any news. I know full well the evils of the world I do not need to see it glamorized as well. And yes, it is very much glamorized in the movies, games, tv, and the news. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just telling you where I'm at. Years ago I came to understand that Satan wants us to work hard on trimming the branches of evil. You see, as long as we are running around with clippers trying to cut off branches then we never care about the roots! The branches will never stop growing without the roots being dug out. And when we run around working on the branches we feel like we are really accomplishing things. Let me give you some examples. Examples are very needed in our time because otherwise we just see our traditions that have come from blending the world with our Chritianity. Ok, we see evil in the world. Well, this is to be expected. But we need to be focused on Jesus and looking for how evil is infiltrating US so that we can be all that He can be through us! In the late 1940's I believe it was, could be off a few years cause it's been a while since I looked at the dates, they instituted age segregation in schools. Before that they were generally one room schools or some kids learned at home. A little known fact though is that this was done mainly based on the theory of evolution. Dewey, the one of the library Decimal System fame, was the main man behind this. Their thought was that children go through and evolutionary process just like original man did. Like changing from a neaderthal to cro-magnon ect. until they are of age. So it would be unhealthy to keep them combined. If you then do a timeline study of our culture you will find crazy things that began to happen in only like 20 some odd years!! Soon we had the terms "peer pressure" and "youth culture" both of which had never been. We also were hit with large amounts of youth suicides and teen pregnancies out of marriage. Broken families became the norm. "Mid-life crisis" came into existance. Drug and alchohol use became rampant. The list goes on and on. You may think this age thing doesn't have anything to do with this stuff but that is possibly what Satan wants us to believe. Being separated by ages takes the younger away from the older. Takes the siblings away from each other. Once we begin to spend our lives with our own age group, we then begin to look mainly or only to them for acceptance advice and approval. Soon old people are dumb to young people and young people "just won't listen" to older folks. Including their parents. The ramifications of this are staggering if you care to see. This peer driven life pushes us headlong into a more selfish lifestyle as well. Now mid-lifers are trying to still be in their youth culture or lamenting that they can't. Which leads to more suicides and drugs and alchohol and selfish behavior that tears apart families. Now, this stuff is to be expected in the world. But what about with us??? We try so hard to fix all these problems... at the branches. Meanwhile we pattern our churches after the business world and the school system. We send our kids off to sunday school because we need OUR learning and "worship" time and they need "theirs". (Emphasis on one's self implied) We keep everyone separated as much as possible. No such thing though in the NT church. Even in the OT they kids were told to be in the assembly. I could go on and on about the effects of this on us. But it is just one of the roots that we care not to see. Meanwhile we have all kinds of programs designed to help fix lots of these branches. But the problems not only persist within, they grow. Divorce and broken families in the church for instance. When we use the same systems and methods that have been made based on man's fallen mind, we are mistaken.
I have believed for years that children spend far too little time with their parents and other adults but I had not thought in terms of separation by age in our schools and churches. It certainly relates directly to the evolutionary teaching we are forced to listen to and I believe you are correct in your assertions about what the results have been. People actually believe they can outsmart the devil or worse that he doesn't exist, what a triumph for evil that has been, a creature that was the highest creation of the Lord in the heavenly realms and who has existed longer than mankind. How deceived we are by our own pride and the evil one. God Bless, Phil
Very good read Michael. I have always been the type of person to spend alot of time with my kids. and you know i have always said parents can learn from children just as children can learn from adults. Even in the bible in matthew 18:3-4 jesus says "assuredly i say to you unless you are converted and become as little children you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. " I think right there jesus is telling us we should learn from children just as much as we teach them. Also in john 4:1 it says "beloved do not believe every spirit but test the spirits whether they are of god because many false prophets have gone out into the world." that tells us right there to question our church leaders far to often i have seen on the news church leaders being convicted of child molestation. false prophets have entered our world maybe we should open our eyes and look for them rather than focus our lives on stuff that really doesnt matter.
it was a really awesome read michael i pray that you will continue to provide us with your knowledge.
I'm glad that you can benefit from it. I sure have. I sure can't take any credit for knowing or acting on such things because it seems Jesus has a way of pushing me along. Kinda hard to explain, but bottom line is that I ain't very with it on my own!:)
I felt the same at first. But the evidence is there. Beyod that in the last 14 years I have been able to see what a differece this and some other things really make on groups long term.
I don't fully agree that children have to be with the adults in every service all the time, but I fully agree it needs to happen more often. Children need to see their parents worshiping and praying. It also gives the parents with their children a common ground to talk about God and the Bible. There has to be a balance between parents teaching children and other people teaching the children. No parent can teach everything. This is where others can help some, but no parent should rely on others to do all the teaching in school or in church. You did bring up some excellent points that everyone should think about.
I agree. I will add though that we tend to only think of this within our present situation.
When all ages and all the people share and work together in the meeings, everyone learns more. Child and adult alike learn more from others. We tend to only see it as a programed teacher taught class setting because that is what we know best.
"Don't hesitate to ask or correct me about anything."
So that is exactly what I am going to do.
"In the late 1940's I believe it was, could be off a few years cause it's been a while since I looked at the dates, they instituted age segregation in schools. Before that they were generally one room schools or some kids learned at home. A little known fact though is that this was done mainly based on the theory of evolution."
You are off by more than a few years. You are off by more than 100 years...
The division of students by age (and ability) was originally started in the US in the 1840's and the idea did not come from Melvil Dewey who wasn't even born yet. It had been observed in Germany and as schools grew in size, so did the trend of graded schools.
While the vast majority of schools in the US are graded so that the children are less than two years apart in age, there are plenty of other models such as Montessori Schools, Continuous Progress, etc where multiple grading occurs within the same classroom.
Actually, and I speak from the viewpoint of a former educator, one of the problems that I saw amongst children was too much adult micromanagement and I will tell you why. Instead of children learning how to be problem-solvers amongst themselves, they look to adults for everything. Parents nowadays will often attempt to manage or schedule every single moment of their children's lives. I remember once when I started a new position teaching preschoolers. We went out to the playground and the children stood there waiting for me to tell them what they should do. Which piece of equipment was assigned to which child? What game should they play? I actually had to teach them how to do free play.
So... you don't believe in age-appropriate instruction I take it. Do you realize how much misunderstanding occurs because no one takes the time to put things into terms a child understands? Do you realize what a child's vocabulary is compared to an adult's?
Thank you for the comments, this is very good, this is what I hoped for.
While age segregation started in one school back in 1848 it was not adopted everywhere for a while. And Dewey was a pusher of it and evolutionary teaching in school. Like I say, accurate history is hard to come by so I don't know where all the truth lies there. But I believe in the results that we see from this.
I just did a search on age segregation in schools and was surprised to find that many non-christian groups are opposed to it as well. Check it out.
Now about children needing their own ministry at church.
I am a former childrens pastor and was a youth pastor for years as well. Small and mega groups.
It's difficult to understand what you haven't seen.
How do you think that the early church, for nearly 300 years, made it without buildings, childrens or youth ministries, or any of the official ministries, or a singular person to bring a sermon every week, or any titled "Pastors" and the list goes on?
Have we found a better way? I say no, because I have been on both sides. And there was a great cost involved in getting to this other side.
When church works like it was designed to, children are not left out. On the contrary, they are a centerpiece! A proper church meeting is about give and take. It may be all about what the kids want to say one time and about what an adult says another.
It may be a kids song right now and an adults next.
It may be just listening to someone's story of pain or hope from that week. It may be tons of different things.
And in this type of setting true learning happens in a number of ways. We learn more because everyone shares their pieces of the truth. And possibly as much or more learning happens because we learn about each other and we learn the patience of dealing with each other and that the meeting is not about exactly what tickles my brain but about everyone reguardless of age or interests.
(I will continue)
In an individualistic society like ours we have made church about self.
This is not how it is intended. ,
Read Corinthians about the one body many parts in the new light of how they had church then. Suddenly it means much more. The part about love is patient, love is kind, takes in new meaning as well because it is said in the context of the fact that everyone participated. You are gonna need patience for that! Haha, but true.
It's all over the NT but we are programmed by our surroundings not to see it.
Or I supoose we believe we have a better way now. But experience tells me this is not true.
I also agree about the micro managment of the children. This is also what we do with church, we are arfraid to let it flow.
In a setting like the NT church, you hang out often and eat and so on, in depth bible talk is a frequent occurance with adults in this. We here and now "know" more about the bible than the NT church. This is not our need, we need to know more from living it among ourselves and the world. In the NT setting we learn by having to live it at the meetings.
And the meetings are not an event on Sunday that you leave, it's your life that continues day to day with one another.
And I'm not here to debate our school history, that is not my focus here but I will say that common sense also tells us that schools weren't all age segregated in the 1880's. I mean haven't you ever watched Little House on the Prairie! Haha
But seriously, my grandma went to a one room school without age segregation in the 1920's. It only went to 8th grade. She loved school so much she took the 8th grade as many years as they let her! One of the cool things with that setting was that the older helped the younger learn.
No doubt that you have given much for thought Michael !
You are more than likely right , but things have changed by reason of Age because of problems arising from the old children hurting the smaller children , although you have made good point's about the school system it is not ethical in a school setting ,however in the church house it is more likely to form greater bonds with family and friends and groups ,Only because children have more respect to the house of God then they will every have for the school house .
Point at hand , how often do you hear of a fight or a shooting in the house of God ?
Be blessed forever
Yeah, I'm not refering to changing the school system. Altgough they didn't change it based on older hurting younger.
And I have to say that we are now the house of God, not a building or place, so we can't go in what we are.
Oh and sorry, I didn't clarify that I have nothing against age appropriate stuff for kids. It just doesn't have to happen the way we think it does or by separation. As we see in the NT church.
Glad to see # 2. Looks like it will spice up the spiritual soup so to speak. I am not the brightest star in the firmament nor am I a student of the bible. (I read the NT. and try to apply it to my life, as best as I can.) Three cheers for Jesus and the good news
I am so happy you invited us to question what you write, or what anybody writes. There are a couple of suggestions or observations on my part. Far be it for me to imply you or anybody is wrong. These are only observations and a different point of view.
trimming the branches of evil Jesus said: You have to trim the vine, to get more fruit. So if one trims the branches of evil, one gets more evil. Just a thought.
I think age segregation became necessary as the population moved from the farm to the city. Imagine Brooklyn 051 with 3,000 students in one classroom or 200 one room schools for 15 students each.
Now a note from my personal experience. I went to High School 1955 to 1959 the graduating class numbered 365 of age segregated students. During this time there was not one teen pregnancy or teen suicide.
In contrast: 1993, I lived in Lancaster County, PA. with an Amish family, to experience the Amish way. During this time, I had the privilege to sit in on a working one room school.
2004: I received a letter from my friend Mr. Stoltzfus that his neighbors son was arrested for drug possession. This makes me think it is more of a cultural problem that a one room school.
Written in truth and love. God bless you.
Peace. The Regifter
Thanks for that comment. I can hear your heart in the writing!
The statement about trimming evil branches makes more evil is great.
And actually what you said about schools lines up perfectly with what I said. You were in the school in the 50's the effects of evelutionary systems and ideals didn't hit till the 60's. That is when teen suicides and pregnancies and substance abuse realky hit.
So by the time of 1993 it was everywhere.
And let me say again, my focus is NOT the school system. The point is that we adopt the systems of the world into our church practice then call them correct. And I know, I know, I'm a weirdo. There are churches on every corner with pros in them that all say I'm wrong. Thats fine, the majority has a history of being wrong. I know, I was part of the majority for most of my life. I'mno smarter or better than anyone else.
I just love the church deeply. He has put that burden into me. I never asked for it. Sometimes my flesh wishes it wasn't so.
Has anyone searched about Dewey and age segregation in schools, or his ties to Dawinism since I mentioned it?
Has anyone searched out in Corinthians about the one body many parts applying to open paticipatory all ages meetings since I mentioned it?
I'm asking an honest question here.
Or do we not care cause it seems like no big deal cause things are fine the way they are? Or do we do what most Christians normally do: go and search for something that backs what we already believe?
And there are actually millions hearing the call to return to the natural way of church. God is moving because time is short.